♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF WATER QUALITY RESPONDS TO A LAWSUIT CHALLENGING ARIZONA'S GROUND WATER RULES.

>>> A GOLD STAR MOTHER SHARES HER SON'S STORY AND THE SUPPORT THAT HER ORGANIZATION OFFERS FAMILIES OF FALLEN SOLDIERS.

>>> AND A NEW BOOK CHRONICLES THE TRAVELS OF TWO FRIENDS AS THEY MAKE THEIR WAY AROUND THE STATE.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

CHECK OF HEADLINES, START WITH ECONOMIC NEWS.

JOBLESS CLAIMS ARE UP.

THE U.S. LABOR DEPARTMENT REPORTS ROUGHLY 242,000 FIRST-TIME UNEMPLOYMENT CLAIMS WERE FILED LAST WEEK, A JUMP OF 22,000 FROM THE PREVIOUS WEEK AND WELL ABOVE WHAT ECONOMISTS EXPECTED.

ALSO THE LARGEST WEEKLY SPIKE IN CLAIMS IN FOUR MONTHS AND ECONOMISTS SAY IT WILL TAKE ANOTHER WEEK OR TWO FOR THE IMPACT OF FEDERAL LAYOFFS TO KICK IN.

>>> OTHER ECONOMIC INDICATORS RELEASED TODAY.

GDP INCREASED TO 2.4% LEAVING GDP FOR THE WHOLE YEAR AT 2.8%.

PENDING HOME SALES FELL TO ALL-TIME LOW IN JANUARY WITH HIGH MORTGAGE RATES AND HIGH HOME PRICES COMBINING TO DROP HOME SALES 4.6%.

AS FOR MORTGAGE RATES, THEY WERE HIGHER.

AVERAGE RATE ON 30-YEAR FIXED WAS SOLIDLY ABOVE 7% FOR JANUARY AS PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID THAT 25% TARIFFS ON IMPORTS FROM CANADA AND MEXICO WILL GO INTO EFFECT ON MARCH 4 AS SCHEDULED.

IMPORTS FROM CHINA WILL FACE AN ADDITIONAL 10% TARIFF ON THE SAME DATE.

THE PREVIOUS 10% TARIFF ON CHINA IMPORTS WENT INTO EFFECT EARLIER THIS MONTH.

PRESIDENT SAID THE TARIFFS WERE STILL ON BECAUSE THE THREE COUNTRIES, AMERICA'S BIGGEST TRADING PARTNERS WERE NOT DOING ENOUGH TO KEEP DRUGS FROM ENTERING THE U.S. >>> ACTOR GENE HACKMAN AND HIS WIFE CLASSICAL PIANIST BETSY ARAKAWA WERE FOUND DEAD IN THEIR HOME, A DOG WAS ALSO FOUND DEAD IN THE HOME.

THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF FOUL PLAY BUT STARTING TO BACK OFF ON THE ASSESSMENT AS THEY FIGURE OUT WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED.

HACKMAN WAS NOMINATED FOR FIVE ACADEMY AWARDS, HE CREATED MEMORABLE CHARACTERS IN A HOST OF FILMS INCLUDING FRENCH CONNECTION, MISSISSIPPI BURNING, UNFORGIVEN AND THE ROYAL TENENBAUMS.

GENE HACKMAN DEAD AT 95.

>>> EARLIER THIS WEEK, WE HEARD FROM THE GOLDWATER INSTITUTE ON LAWSUIT AGAINST THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES ON BEHALF OF THE HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION OF ARIZONA.

THE LAWSUIT CLAIMS THAT THE GROUND WATER REGULATIONS ON NEW HOME DEVELOPMENTS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

TONIGHT WE HEAR FROM THE OTHER SIDE.

TOM BUSCHATZKE IS STATE DIRECTOR OF ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

TED: START WITH THE LAWSUIT.

THEY'RE SAYING THAT BASICALLY YOUR IDEAS OF ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA DO NOT ABIDE BY STATE LAW, AND THE DECISIONS THAT YOU MADE NEED TO BE MADE BY ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND?

>> SO THOSE DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE BY ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES.

THE 1980 GROUND WATER MANAGEMENT ACT WENT THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE AND SIGNED BY OUR GOVERNOR.

WE DID RULE MAKING TO IMPLEMENT THE LAW IN 1994 AND IN 2006, THAT WAS A FORMAL PROCESS THAT ALLOWED FOR INPUT BY THE PUBLIC.

SO WE BELIEVE WE ARE FOLLOWING THE LAW AS IT IS LAID OUT, AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE DO SO BECAUSE WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE IS THE WATER FOR OUR EXISTING HOME OWNERS.

TED: AND YET THEY SAY, ESPECIALLY WITH ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREAS AND SHOULD GET TO THIS RIGHT AWAY, BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS, AND THE HOME BUILDERS ARE PUSHING THIS.

THEY WANT THE HUNDRED-YEAR DESIGNATION FOR THE PROPOSED USE, AND SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS PROPOSED USE IS FINE OVER HERE, BUT IF YOU'RE IN THE ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA AND IT'S GOING TO MEAN LESS WATER OVER THERE OR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS, THAT'S A PROBLEM?

>> SO THE STANDARD IS FOR THE USE OF THE HOMES THEY WANT TO BUILD.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT ASSESSING THAT, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL THE WATER ALLOCATED TO THE WATER USERS IN THE ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA.

THOUGH THAT IS ALLOCATED OVER THE 100-YEAR TIME FRAME.

WE HAVE A TERM OF ART FOR THAT, UNMET DEMAND.

IT MEANS IF THE NEW HOMES ARE PERMITTED FOR WATER BY ME, THEY'RE GOING TO POTENTIALLY TAKE AWAY WATER FROM THE HOMES THAT EXIST, SO MY PREMISE IS THAT MEANS THERE IS NOT WATER FOR THE USE OF THOSE NEW HOMES.

TED: YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE AREA AS OPPOSED TO THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT?

>> THAT IS CORRECT BECAUSE THE HOME OWNERS IN THE ENTIRE AREA SHARE A COMMON RESOURCE, THE UNDERGROUND WATER AQUIFER WITHIN THE PHOENIX ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA OR MARICOPA COUNTY IN THIS CASE.

>> THE GOLDWATER INSTITUTE, WHO WE HAD ON EARLIER THIS WEEK, THEY SAY YOU MADE THAT RULE BY THE STROKE OF A PEN, AND NOT SOMETHING AS PART OF THE GROUND WATER MANAGEMENT ACT, NOT SOMETHING THE LEGISLATURE WAS INVOLVED WITH, AND LAWMAKERS NEED TO MAKE THESE KINDS OF DECISIONS.

DO THEY HAVE A POINT?

>> THEY ARE INCORRECT BECAUSE THE LAW WAS CREATED BY THE LAWMAKERS, AS I SAID.

THE RULE MAKING PROCESS, WHICH IS A FORMAL PROCESS, OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR COMMENT, THEN DETERMINES HOW THE LAWS SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED BECAUSE LAWS ARE WRITTEN IN A WAY THAT THERE'S NOT ALWAYS A LOT OF DETAIL.

SO THOSE ARE LEGALLY BINDING AS WELL, THE RULES ARE LEGALLY BINDING, WE ADOPTED THEM PURSUANT TO STATE LAW, AND WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THEM SINCE THEY WERE FIRST ADOPTED IN THE 90s AND MODIFIED IN THE MID 2,000S.

TED: WHEN THEY SAY THERE IS NO ADMINISTRATIVE RULE MAKING HERE, THERE WAS NO PUBLIC COMMENT, YOU SAY?

>> THERE WAS IN 1994 AND IN 2006, AND THAT IS A MATTER OF RECORD.

TED: WAS THE ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA AS A WHOLE, AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW, THE UNMET DEMAND ASPECT OF ALL THIS.

WAS THAT A FACTOR IN THE EARLIER YEARS OR SOMETHING THAT IS RECENTLY -- SOUNDS TO ME LIKE GOVERNOR DUCEY IN 2017, ALONG THOSE LINES, THAT WAS KIND OF HIS IDEA?

>> SO IN 2017, THIS UNMET DEMAND IDEA FIRST DAYLIGHTED IN PINAL COUNTY.

THE ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA.

UNMET DEMAND, AGAIN, IS A TERM OF ART THAT COLLECTIVELY DESCRIBES THE LAW AND ALL THE RULES SO PEOPLE CAN MORE EASILY UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS WITHOUT HAVING TO READ THROUGH 30 OR 40 PAGES OF LEGALESE WHICH WE KNOW PEOPLE HATE.

TED: OKAY, SO BACK IN 2017, THAT IDEA WAS LOOK OUT FOR THE FUTURE, PROTECT THE HOME OWNERS THAT ARE THERE RIGHT NOW, CORRECT?

>> AND THAT HAS BEEN THE STANDARD SINCE THE INCEPTION OF THE PROGRAM IN THE 1990s.

WE JUST KIND OF HIT THIS WALL IN 2017 IN PINAL COUNTY AND LATER IN MARICOPA COUNTY, WHERE THE UNMET DEMAND STARTED SURFACING.

BEFORE THAT, WE WERE APPROVING HOME OWNER WATER PERMITS, ASSURED WATER SUPPLY PERMITS BECAUSE WE COULD.

WE DIDN'T HAVE THE UNMET DEMAND AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

WHEN IT STARTED TO SURFACE, I CAN NO LONGER APPROVE THOSE ASSURED WATER SUPPLY PERMITS.

TED: THE FACT THAT YOU COULD NO LONGER APPROVE THE PERMITS.

WE HAD THEM HERE, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

THAT'S WHY THEY'RE TAKING YOU TO COURT?

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LOTS ALREADY APPROVED THAT HAVE NOT YET BEEN BUILT.

SO THIS IS NOT NO MORE HOMES.

THIS IS LET'S USE THE INVENTORY WE HAVE WITH THE WATER WE HAVE, AND BE CAREFUL ABOUT NOT STRETCHING OUR WATER SUPPLIES PAST BREAKING POINT FOR NEW HOMES.

TED: AND WHEN THE GOLDWATER INSTITUTE SAYS HERE ON THIS SHOW THAT YOU'RE MAKING AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THE CRISIS, YOU ARE MAKE IT WORSE WITH THE INTERPRETATION OR REGULATION AS FAR AS THE AMA, ACTIVE MANAGEMENT AREA, IS CONCERNED, YOU SAY?

>> YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT MORTGAGE RATES AND HOME BUYING GOING DOWN.

THERE'S LOTS OF FACTERS INTO WHETHER PEOPLE AFFORD HOMES OR BUY HOMES.

THE WATER PART OF HOME OWNING IS A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF WHAT IT TAKES FOR THE HOME BUILDERS TO BE ABLE TO BUILD AND SELL HOMES.

TED: AND THEY'RE SAYING THAT THIS HAPPENING, THE HOME BUILDING IS NOT HAPPENING BECAUSE OF HOW YOU'RE DEFINING THIS, HAPPENING IN SOME OF THE AREAS THAT NEED HOMES THE MOST AND ARE THE BEST SUITED FOR FIRST-TIME HOMEBUYERS.

DO THEY HAVE A POINT?

>> THEY DEFINITELY TALKED ABOUT QUEEN CREEK AND BUCKEYE, FAR SOUTHEAST, FAR WEST PART OF OUR COUNTY.

THOSE FOLKS HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH US ON SOME NEW PROGRAMS THAT WE PUT INTO PLACE, SOMETHING CALLED ALTERNATIVE DESIGNATION OF ASSURED WATER SUPPLY.

THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MOVE FORWARD.

WE GIVE A BRIDGE OF GROUND WATER TO THE FOLKS, WE OFFSET THE BRIDGE TO GROUND WATER BUT OVER THE 100-YEAR TIME FRAME LOOKING AT THE HEALTH OF THE AQUIFER, IT IMPROVES THE HEALTH OF THE AQUIFER, WE'RE MAKING A POSITIVE BENEFIT AND ALLOWING THEM TO MOVE FORWARD AND BUILD HOMES.

TED: SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS ASSURED GROUND WATER FOR EXISTING HOME OWNERS IS KEY, CORRECT?

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE I PROTECT THOSE THAT ARE ALREADY HERE AND THE PEOPLE BUYING NEW HOMES HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THE BARGAIN THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE WATER FOR THE 100-YEAR ASSURED WATER SUPPLY STATE REQUIREMENTS.

>> AND YET THE HOME BUILDERS, GOLDWATER INSTITUTE CALLED YOUR INTERPRETATION, THE LARGEST BUREAUCRATIC POWER GRAB IN ARIZONA HISTORY.

>> SO THEY KIND OF CALLED ME A DICTATOR, AND HERE'S HOW I TAKE THAT.

WHEN THE LAW AND THE FACTS ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE, YOU START TO LOOK AT LOOKING AT THE PERSON AND SAYING THINGS ABOUT THE PERSON TO MARGINALIZE THEM.

THOSE COMMENTS THEY'VE MADE, TO ME, MEANS THEY KNOW THEY DON'T HAVE A STRONG CASE, SO THEY HAVE TO ATTACK ME AS A DICTATOR AND ATTACK WHAT I'M DOING AS THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT.

TED: WE SHOULD MENTION, YOU SAID THE GOLDWATER INSTITUTE IS REPRESENTING -- THIS IS YOUR QUOTE, A GROUP OF POWERFUL IRRESPONSIBLE INTERESTS.

GOING AFTER THEM HARD THERE.

>> THAT IS CORRECT, BUT RESPONSIBLE DEVELOPMENT MEANS YOU HAVE WATER FOR THE 100 YEARS.

THEY ARE TRYING TO OVERTURN THE LAW.

THAT IS WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO.

THEY CLAIM THEY'RE TRYING TO UPHOLD THE LAW BY SAYING LAWMAKERS HAVE TO MAKE THE LAW, WHICH THEY HAVE IN THIS CASE, THEY'RE TRYING TO GET A JUDGE TO OVERTURN THE LAW AND LET THEM BUILD HOMES WITHOUT THE 100-YEAR ASSURED WATER SUPPLY.

TED: LAST QUESTION BEFORE YOU GO, LAWMAKERS ARE STARTING TO ASK, DO WE KNOW HOW MUCH WATER WE HAVE?

IF NOT, WHY NOT?

>> SO, THE WATER WE HAVE IS EASILY MEASURED WHEN IT'S ABOVE THE GROUND, WHEN HAVE YOU WATER BELOW THE GROUND THAT YOU CAN'T SEE, WE HAVE GROUND WATER MODELS THAT HELP TELL US HOW MUCH WATER IS THERE AND WHETHER OR NOT THESE NEW ASSURED WATER APPLICATIONS CAN BE APPROVED.

THE HOME BUILDERS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DEBUNK MY MODEL FOR MANY YEARS AND HAVE NOT DONE THAT.

LATEST VERSION OF DEBUNKING IS FINDING A WAY TO SYSTEMATICALLY DRAIN THE AQUIFERS, THAT'S A MODEL THEY'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR QUITE A WHILE.

TED: TOM BUSCHATZKE, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES, GLAD TO GET YOU ON AND HAVE YOUR RESPONSE TO THE LAWSUIT.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

.

TED: AMERICAN GOLD STAR MOTHERS IS A GROUP OF MOMS WHO LOST A SON OR DAUGHTER IN MILITARY SERVICE, THEY WORK TO KEEP MEMORIES OF LOVED ONES ALIVE BY HELPING VETERANS AND OTHER FAMILIES.

JOINING US IS DIANE BROWN PRESIDENT OF THE CENTRAL ARIZONA CHAPTER OF GOLD STAR MOTHERS.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> NICE TO BE HERE.

TED: AMERICAN GOLD STAR MOTHERS, DID I DO A GOOD JOB OF DESCRIBING IT THERE?

WHAT CAN YOU TELL US?

>> A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION, STARTED IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

IN WORLD WAR I -- WORLD WAR I, TO BE TOGETHER WHEN THEY LOST LOVED ONES OVERSEAS IN WORLD WAR I, AND IT'S A VETERAN SERVICE ORGANIZATION, 501(C)(3) NONPROFIT, AND WE SUPPORT OTHER NONPROFITS WITH THE VETERAN SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE A CHAPTER OR DEPARTMENT HERE IN ARIZONA.

TED: YEAH, THE GOLD STAR IS A SYMBOL.

WAS THAT FROM THE BEGINNING?

.

>> WELL, YES, THE STORY ABOUT THE GOLD STAR IS THERE USED TO BE BLUE STAR, AND THERE STILL IS A BLUE STAR, BLUE STAR FAMILIES HAVE ACTIVE SERVICE PERSON SERVING CURRENTLY, AND HOW IT EVOLVED WAS IF THEY LOST THEIR LOVED ONE, THEY SEWED OVER THE BLUE STAR WITH GOLD, THAT'S HOW THE GOLD STAR STARTED.

TED: ISN'T THAT SOMETHING?

VOLUNTEER WORK PROVIDING ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE, SOCIAL ASSISTANCE?

>> YES, SO WE HAVE QUITE A FEW PEOPLE THAT HELP US OUT AND SUPPORT US.

KICHEL IS ONE OF THEM, THEY DO A CAR SHOW FOR US EVERY YEAR.

WE GET LOTS OF DONATIONS.

GENERAL DYNAMICS, THINGS LIKE THAT AND SUPPORT EVERYTHING FROM THE VFW IN PRESCOTT VALLEY TO AN INDIVIDUAL VETERAN IN PHOENIX THAT WAS RECENTLY IN A CAR ACCIDENT.

WE ALSO, AGAIN, SERVE.

WE GO TO SOLDIERS' BEST FRIENDS GRADUATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

TED: YOUR SON, STAFF SERGEANT ALEX CONRAD.

TALK TO US ABOUT HIM?

>> HE WAS AN ARIZONA KID, BORN IN MESA.

GREW UP IN CHANDLER, WENT TO DOBSON SOUTH LITTLE LEAGUE, SANTAN LEGACY SOCCER, GRADUATED FROM HAMILTON HIGH SCHOOL, AND LEFT FOR BOOT CAMP RIGHT AFTER HIGH SCHOOL, AND WENT TO SERVE -- WENT TO BOOT CAMP FIRST, AND GOT A JOB WITH MILITARY INTELLIGENCE.

HE WAS DOWN HERE AT FORT HUACHUCA FOR QUITE AWHILE BEFORE HE WAS ASSIGNED TO THE INFANTRY UP IN WASHINGTON AT McCORD LEWIS BASE, AND FROM THERE, HE WENT TO AFGHANISTAN TWICE, AND THEN WHEN HE CAME BACK FROM AFGHANISTAN, HIS GOAL WAS TO GET TO SPECIAL FORCES, SO HE NEEDED TO GO TO AIRBORNE SCHOOL, WENT TO AIRBORNE SCHOOL.

CAME BACK FROM AIRBORNE SCHOOL, WAS ACCEPTED AT THE DEFENSE INSTITUTE LANGUAGE INSTITUTE IN MONTEREY, CALIFORNIA, WHERE HE GRADUATED THERE FOR FRENCH.

SO HE HAS HIS BROTHER AND SISTER WERE LIKE, WHY ARE YOU TAKING FRENCH?

HE SAYS BECAUSE THEY SPEAK FRENCH IN AFRICA.

AND WE'RE LIKE, OH, AFRICA.

SO HE LEFT FOR AFRICA IN JANUARY OF 2018, AND HE WAS ON PATROL.

THEY WERE PROTECTING A VILLAGE OUT IN SOMALIA, AND THEY CAME UNDER MORTAR FIRE FROM ELSHAB AUB, AND THERE WERE ACTUALLY FIVE SOLDIERS THAT WERE HIT.

TOOK A WHILE TO GET OUT OF THERE BECAUSE OF THE FIRING, BUT HE'S THE ONE THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT OUT.

THE OTHER FOUR ARE FINE.

TED: WHEN THIS HAPPENED, WERE YOU AWARE OF GOLD STAR MOMS BEFORE THIS HAPPENED?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK I WAS, MOSTLY BECAUSE OF LORI PIESTEWA, RIGHT?

MY KIDS, WE ALL GREW UP IN ARIZONA.

THAT'S WHERE I FIRST LEARNED ABOUT GOLD STAR FAMILIES, AND I NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS THOUGHT I WOULD BE ONE.

TED: WHEN YOU BECAME ONE, HOW DID GOLD STAR MOMS, GOLD STAR FAMILIES, HOW DID THIS UMBRELLA, HOW DID IT HELP YOU?

>> IT'S A GREAT FELLOWSHIP.

I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THERE'S MOMS THAT HAVE LOST THEIR KIDS FROM THE DESERT STORM TO THE IRAQ WAR AND AFGHANISTAN, OF COURSE, AND SO WE REALLY DO FEEL LIKE OUR MISSION IS TO CONTINUE ON WITH OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS' SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY AND THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO, AND WE DO THAT LOVINGLY AND JOYFULLY.

TED: DO YOU SEE YOURSELF IN SOME OF THE MOMS?

>> OH, YEAH.

DEFINITELY, YEAH.

WE ALL HAVE THE SIMILAR EXPERIENCE, RIGHT?

BUT WHAT IS SO FUNNY IS -- I DON'T KNOW IF FUNNY IS THE WORD -- WHAT'S SO IRONIC ABOUT IT, WE TALK ABOUT OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, AND THEY WERE GOOFY, BUT THEY WERE STRONG FIGHTERS, YOU KNOW?

AND WE WERE SO PROUD OF THEM, BUT THEY JUST HAD THE SAME KIND OF PERSONALITY.

TED: THEY'RE YOUR KIDS, OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THEM LIKE THAT.

WHERE CAN PEOPLE LEARN MORE ABOUT GOLD STAR MOMS?

>> WE HAVE A DEPARTMENT HERE, AND WE HAVE E-MAIL THAT WE COULD GO TO DESERT -- NOT DESERT, SORRY.

THE DEPARTMENT OF ARIZONA@AMERICAN GOLD STAR MOTHERS.ORG, AND THEY CAN SEND US AN E-MAIL THERE AND WE CAN GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM.

TED: ALL RIGHT, VERY GOOD.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR STORY.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON AND ALL THE GREAT WORK YOU'RE DOING WITH AMERICAN GOLD STAR MOTHERS.

FANTASTIC WORK AND THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU.

.

TED: A NEW TRAVEL LOG FOLLOWES TWO FRIENDS AS THEY EXPLORE A NUMBER OF ARIZONA LOCATIONS ON A ROAD TRIP FILLED BY POETRY PROSE AND PHOTOGRAPHY.

THE BOOK IS TITLED "ARIZONA FRIEND TRIPS: STORIES FROM THE ROAD."

JOINING US IS CO-AUTHOR LISA SCHNEBLY HEIDINGER WHO WROTE "ARIZONA FRIEND TRIPS: STORIES FROM THE ROAD" WITH HER FRIEND JULIE MORRISON WHO CAN'T BE WITH US TODAY, BUT YOU CAN, AND CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: MUST HAVE BEEN A LOT OF FUN TO WRITE.

>> I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD GET PUBLISHED, I THOUGHT WE WOULD JUST GET TO GO ON ROAD TRIPS.

>> WHY THE TITLE, FRIEND TRIPS.

>> PLAYING WITH THE TITLE.

TED: YOU HAVE BEEN FRIENDS FOR A WHILE?

>> QUITE AWHILE, WE WERE IN THE FLYNN LEADERSHIP ACADEMY SINCE 2012, AND WE WERE FRIENDS AND THOUGHT ABOUT THIS PRE-PANDEMIC.

TED: YOU THOUGHT, WAIT A MINUTE, WE GOT SOMETHING HERE.

>> JULIE CAME UP WITH IT.

WE SAID HEY, WE'RE THIRD GENERATION ARIZONANS, WE LOVE THE STATE.

I DO POETRY, YOU DO PROSE AND PHOTOGRAPHY, LET'S DO A BOOK.

THE ONLY PLACE NEITHER OF US HAD BEEN, THERE WERE A FEW, BUT THE LITTLE CHAPEL OF THE HOLY DOVE ON 180 GOING TO THE CANYON.

TED: WOW.

>> LET'S PULL IN.

THE REST OF THEM WE KIND OF PLANNED.

TED: WE GOT PHOTOGRAPHS, AND YOU HAVE GONE EVERYWHERE FROM PAPAGO PARK TO THE GRAND CANYON.

I THINK THE LAST SENTENCE IN THE BOOK IS WHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO NEXT?

THAT WAS THE THEME, WASN'T IT?

>> WE HAVE A LIST OF 32 PLACES WE'D LIKE TO GO.

TED: MY GOODNESS, 32 MORE?

>> YEAH.

TED: THE FIRST ONE IS HANNIGAN MEADOW, THIS IS THE FAVORITE OF YOUR CO-AUTHOR, CORRECT?

>> JULIE FELL IN LOVE WITH HANNIGAN MEADOW.

IT'S ONE OF THE RARE PLACES, TED, THAT YOU GO ONLY TO GO THERE.

YOU'RE NOT ON THE WAY ANYWHERE.

THERE'S NOTHING MUCH TO DO THERE EXCEPT BE THERE, BUT IT IS CHARMING AND EXQUISITE.

A LONG DRIVE EITHER DIRECTION.

TED: ENJOY IT WHILE YOU'RE THERE.

>> EXACTLY.

LAKE HAVASU, AND FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, LAKE HAVASU, YOU THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT -- >> DRIVING IN AND SEEING THE TICKY TACKY BEACH FRONT HOUSES AND THE FORCED JIMMY BUFFETT OLD LONDON, BUT THE PEOPLE GO THERE TO REALLY LOVE BEING BY THE WATER, AND BY THE TIME WE LEFT, WE FOUND THE PEOPLE SO CHARMING, WE DIDN'T MIND THE KITSCH.

TED: IN WINSLOW, ARIZONA, LA POSADA IS ALMOST SYNONYMOUS WITH WINSLOW, ISN'T IT?

>> MY MOTHER GREW UP IN WINSLOW AND THEY ALL CALLED IT THE LA POSADA.

SUCH AN EXQUISITE PIECE, I DID A STORY WHEN THEY STARTED TO RESTORE IT AND GOING BACK EVER SINCE.

TED: HAVE THEY RESTORED IT WELL?

>> THE VEGETABLE PLATE AT THE TURQUOISE ROOM, I DREAM ABOUT IT GOING TO SLEEP.

TED: THAT GOOD?

>> THE FERRY?

>> MY FAVORITE.

TED: WHY YOUR FAVORITE?

>> I THINK BECAUSE IT'S SO STARK AND DRAMATIC AND OF ITSELF AND EMILY, JOHN D. LEE'S WIFE WAS SO FIERCELY BRAVE, GAVE BIRTH TWICE THERE BY HERSELF, AND YOU CAN SEE WHERE THEY WALKED AND LIVED.

TED: THAT WAS YOUR FAVORITE?

>> YEAH.

TED: ALL RIGHT, SOUTH RIM, MAYBE YOUR CO-AUTHOR'S?

>> JULIE HATED IT, I AM REVERENT.

TED: REALLY?

WHO HATES THAT?

>> SHE WENT IN A BAD RELATIONSHIP AND NEVER QUITE FORGAVE IT, I DIDN'T FEEL GREAT ABOUT TWO OF THEM EITHER, THAT'S OKAY.

TED: THAT'S AMAZING THAT SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD STICK.

HOLY SMOKES.

>> WHAT'S NOT TO LOVE?

TED: I KNOW.

WALNUT CANYON.

>> DIDN'T LIKE IT.

TED: WHERE IS THAT?

>> RIGHT OUTSIDE FLAGSTAFF, AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL.

I MEAN, IT'S LEFTOVER PROPERTIES AND THE CRAFTSMANSHIP IS EXQUISITE, BUT TED, I FEEL LIKE YOU WALK UPHILL IN AND OUT.

I DID NOT HAVE FUN.

TED: YES.

I HATE WHEN YOU ARE HIKING DOWN INTO SOMETHING BECAUSE I'VE GOT TO MAKE THE SAME TRIP THE OTHER WAY.

>> FELT LIKE UP WAS SO MUCH MORE.

TED: OKAY, DO WE HAVE OPOTKE.

>> MY HAPPY PLACE BECAUSE OF THE UNUSUAL BALL COURT WHICH ARIZONA DOESN'T USUALLY HAVE, THAT'S MORE OF A MEXICAN.

AND THE BLOW HOLE, A GEOGRAPHIC FEATURE AND AIR IS EITHER RUSHING UP OUT OF THE GROUND OR DOWN INTO IT.

AND ITS CAVE SYSTEMS AND CHANGES IN WEATHER PRESSURE, BUT IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE BEING WHISPERED TO FROM THE PAST.

TED: WOW, NOW DOES THAT KIND OF STUFF INSPIRE PHOTOGRAPHY AND POETRY AND THESE THINGS?

>> IF YOU'RE PRONE TO THAT, YES.

TED: YES.

>> YOU'RE PRONE TO THAT.

>> I'M PRONE.

TED: SOMETIMES YOU GO TO PLACES LIKE THIS AND IT'S A BIT MUCH.

YOU CAN'T FOCUS IN ON THE ARTISTIC, YOU TAKE IT IN AND ENJOY IT.

WERE YOU ABLE TO SEPARATE A BIT AND GET THAT DOWN?

>> I THINK ALWAYS.

ARIZONA HAS SO MUCH TO WONDER AT, AND THEN YOU GRAB YOUR PICTURES, YOU WONDER AND GRAB YOUR PICTURES.

TED: WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE FROM THIS BOOK?

>> ACTUALLY, IT'S A LITTLE BIT ONGOING.

JULIE AND I, THE BOOK CAME OUT ON FEBRUARY 11, AND WE DROPPED A BRAND-NEW PODCAST THAT DAY.

CELEBRATING ARIZONA.

SO WE GET TO CONTINUE TO TELL OUR STORIES EVERY WEEK.

AND THERE WASN'T A PODCAST CELEBRATING ARIZONA.

THERE ARE NICHE PODCASTS ABOUT ARIZONA, NOW THERE IS.

TED: CONGRATULATIONS, SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF FUN TO DO.

THE BOOK IS GREAT, WHEN AN AUTHOR SEES THEIR BOOK, IT IS FANTASTIC.

>> LIKE SEEING A NEW BABY.

TED: CONGRATULATIONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.