JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, A PUSH TO GET STUDENTS BACK INTO THE CLASSROOM AND BIG CHANGES TO HOW THEY LEARN ABOUT HISTORY SPARKS A LOT OF DEBATE.

ALL THAT AND MORE COMING UP.

♪ HELLO AND THANKS FOR JOINING US ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, I'M DEBORAH HOLT NOEL.

IT'S BEEN CLOSE TO A YEAR SINCE OUR SOCIETY FIRST BEGAN FEELING THE IMPACT OF COVID-19.

AND THIS WEEK, THE PANDEMIC'S IMPACT ON OUR CHILDREN IS FULLY IN THE SPOTLIGHT.

>> TODAY I'M JOINED BY OUR STATE EDUCATION LEADERS TO STRONGLY URGE THAT ALL SCHOOLS PROVIDE IN PERSON LEARNING.

>> GOVERNOR ROY COOPER AND THE STATE'S NEW TOP EDUCATOR ARE COMING TOGETHER WITH A SINGLE MESSAGE.

>> OUR STUDENTS CANNOT LOSE ANY MORE TIME.

>> COOPER IS A DEMOCRAT WHILE KATHERINE TRUITT, THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INSTRUCTION, IS A REPUBLICAN, BUT BOTH AGREE THAT STUDENTS NEED IN PERSON LEARNING FOR REASONS THAT GO BEYOND THE CLASSROOM.

>> WE ALSO KNOW THAT REMOTE LEARNING IN THIS PANDEMIC HAVE TAKEN A TREMENDOUS TOLL ON THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF FAMILIES, DISRUPTING JOBS, CHILDCARE, HEALTHCARE, SOCIAL NETWORKS, AND EVEN FOOD SECURITY.

>> SCHOOL IS WHERE STUDENTS LEARN SOCIAL SKILLS, GET RELIABLE MEALS AND FIND THEIR VOICE.

>> MEANWHILE, THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION IS MAKING CHANGES TO THE WAY THAT STUDENTS LEARN ABOUT HISTORY, NEW STANDARDS FOR SOCIAL STUDIES WILL PUT MORE ATTENTION ON CONCEPTS LIKE RACISM, DISCRIMINATION AND IDENTITY, BUT SOME GOP LAWMAKERS ARE PUSHING BACK, SAYING THE MOVE COULD PROMPT DIVISION, AND POTENTIALLY TEACH STUDENTS, AN ANTI AMERICAN VIEWPOINT.

FOR BLACK ISSUES FORUM, I'M JOSHUA SENEGAL.

>> AMONG THOSE AGAINST THE CHANGE IS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR MARK ROBINSON WHO'S HERE WITH US RIGHT NOW.

LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING BLACK ISSUES FORUM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME THIS MORNING, A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> WELL ONE OF THE INTENTIONS OF REDESIGNING REWRITING THE SOCIAL STUDIES STANDARDS WAS TO BE MORE INCLUSIVE OF THE DIVERSE VOICES AND PERSPECTIVES OF THE STUDENT BODY AND ALSO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE INTENTION BEHIND CHANGING THE STANDARDS?

>> WELL ACTUALLY THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THAT WORRIES ME MOST ABOUT THE STANDARDS.

YOU KNOW WE WE NEED TO MAKE SOMETHING CLEAR HERE.

THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN MISREPRESENTED BY ALL THE THE GOP MEMBERS OF THE STATE BOARD, SO TO SPEAK, AND THAT IS THAT WE WANT TO HIDE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN HISTORY.

NOTHING IS FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

AS A STUDENT OF HISTORY, I KNOW THAT IS ABSOLUTELY IT IS ESSENTIAL.

IT IS A REQUIREMENT ACTUALLY FOR US TO TEACH OUR STUDENTS ABOUT ALL THE TERRIBLE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THIS COUNTRY.

SLAVERY, JIM CROW, THE LACK OF EQUAL ACCESS FOR WOMEN.

WE HAVE TO TEACH HOW AND WHY THOSE THINGS HAPPEN, BUT I THINK ALSO WHAT WE NEED TO TEACH IS THIS: OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT THE AMERICAN SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT IS WHAT MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO OVERCOME THOSE THINGS.

AND IN THESE STANDARDS I DON'T SEE THAT ARE BEING MADE PLAIN I SEE THE TONE HAS BEEN VERY NEGATIVE AND VERY DIVISIVE AND QUITE FRANKLY, POINTS ALL THE BAD THAT'S IN AMERICA, NOT THE GOOD.

>> CAN YOU PROVIDE ANY SPECIFIC EXAMPLES LIKE WHERE DOES IT END WITH THE INTENTION WHICH IS A GOOD THING, BUT IT BEGINS TO SORT OF VEER OFF INTO THAT POLITICAL TERRITORY?

>> I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE SAID SOME OF THE LANGUAGE THAT'S USED, WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM.

THEY MAKE MENTION THAT SOME POINTS ABOUT THE AMERICAN SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT BEING SYSTEMICALLY DISCRIMINATORY.

THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS I THINK WE NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM BECAUSE AS I SAID THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WHEN HAS BEEN INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN PLACES ACROSS THIS NATION.

BUT BY AND LARGE THE WAY WE DESTROYED THOSE THINGS WAS WITH OUR EXCEPTIONAL AMERICAN GOVERNMENT, OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENTS, THE WORDS THEREOF, OUR CONSTITUTION, AND OUR COURTS OF LAW AND THAT IS WHY I'M DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO THESE STANDARDS.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD POINT THAT OUT AS WELL AS POINT OUT THE BAD BECAUSE ONE WITHOUT THE BILL THAT DOESN'T WORK.

>> WELL WORDS LIKE SYSTEMIC HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THIS LAST ITERATION THAT WAS APPROVED ON THURSDAY NIGHT.

SO AT THIS POINT YOU HAVE SAID THAT YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE THE FIGHT ON BEHALF OF WHOM IS WHAT I WOULD ASK BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE HAD INPUT INTO THE REWRITING OF THESE STANDARDS AND EVEN THE PUBLIC HAD FEEDBACK SO SO ON THE WHO'S ON WHOSE BEHALF ARE YOU FIGHTING?

>> WELL HERE IT IS I'VE HEARD A NUMBER THROWN OUT THAT 7,000 PEOPLE RESPONDED TO THESE STANDARDS 85% OF THOSE PEOPLE RESPONDED IN A POSITIVE.

WE JUST RAN A POLL, OURSELVES AND A PETITION, OURSELVES OVER 4 DAYS GOT ALMOST 30,000 SIGNATURES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO THE TONE AND THE CONTENT OF THESE STANDARDS, SO WE THINK THAT THIS ISSUE IS NOT A DEAD ISSUE.

WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE AND TRY TO PERFECT THE STANDARDS FOR THE SATISFACTION OF ALL NORTH CAROLINIANS AND NOT JUST ONE SIDE.

>> WELL, LET'S MOVE ON TO ANOTHER BIG ANNOUNCEMENT THIS WEEK THE REOPENING OF SCHOOLS.

WHO DO YOU THINK IS BENEFITING THE MOST IS A WIN-WIN-WIN FOR EVERYONE WITH REGARD TO RETURNING TO IN PERSON LEARNING?

>> I DO.

I'VE SAID THAT LONG AGO OUR CHILDREN NEED TO BE BACK IN SCHOOL.

AS A CANDIDATE FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR TRAVEL ACROSS THE STATE ONE OF THE NUMBER ONE QUESTION I WAS ASKED IS HOW MUCH INFLUENCE WILL YOU HAVE OVER OPENING THE SCHOOLS?

WHEN WILL SCHOOLS OPEN BACK UP?

AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR IS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I CONTINUE TO GET FROM CITIZENS ACROSS THE STATE.

OUR CHILDREN NEED TO BE BACK IN SCHOOL.

WE HAVE FOUGHT LONG AND HARD THIS COUNTRY TO MAKE PUBLIC EDUCATION A STANDARD.

AND WE HAVE THAT.

IT IS INGRAINED IN OUR SOCIETY AND WITHOUT IT WE SEE THE DREADFUL AFFECTS OF LEARNING ON OUR STUDENTS AND UNFORTUNATELY THOSE STUDENTS THAT ALWAYS END UP GETTING THE SHORT END OF THE STICK ARE GETTING EVEN FARTHER BEHIND.

WE NEED TO GET OUR OUR TEACHERS BACK IN THE CLASSROOM OUR STUDENTS BACK IN THE CLASSROOM AND WE NEED TO GET BACK TO THE BUSINESS OF EDUCATION IN PERSON.

>> AND YOU MENTIONED TEACHERS A LOT OF TEACHERS HOWEVER ARE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH RETURNING TO THE CLASSROOM, ESPECIALLY IN LOCATIONS WHERE THERE IS LARGE STUDENT POPULATION.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO SUPPORT THOSE TEACHERS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEED TO LOOK AT REALLY IS TRYING TO WORK WITH EVERY ENTITY WE CAN TO GET THE VACCINE OUT AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE.

IT'S AN ISSUE OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND RIGHT NOW WE'RE WORKING HARD TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT HAPPENS, BUT I WOULD SAY TO THOSE TEACHERS PLEASE CONSIDER WHAT'S HAPPENING TO OUR STUDENTS.

THERE ARE PEOPLE ALL OVER THIS NATION THAT ARE MAKING SACRIFICES.

ESSENTIAL WORKERS ARE MAKING SACRIFICES EVERY DAY.

AND I THINK THAT TEACHERS SHOULD BE PART OF THAT GROUP.

I KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH, BUT I WOULD ENCOURAGE THEM TO BE STRONG AND HOLD ON.

WE'RE TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF OUR CITIZENS WHO WANT THE VACCINE CAN GET IT.

AND I THINK DO THEY COME TOGETHER AS A COLLECTIVE.

THEY CAN KEEP THEMSELVES SAFE IN THE CLASSROOM, I REALLY HAVE CONFIDENCE THEY CAN DO THAT.

>> WELL I THINK WE ALL WANT THE SAME THINGS AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE WITH US LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR MARK ROBINSON.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> AS WE MENTIONED AT THE TOP OF OUR SHOW, STATE LEADERS ARE URGING PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO ONCE AGAIN OFFER IN PERSON LEARNING, BUT THE GOVERNOR STOPPED SHORT OF MAKING IT A REQUIREMENT.

HERE TO WEIGH IN WE HAVE JAMES FORD EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR RACIALLY EQUITY IN EDUCATION, PROFESSOR UMAR MUHAMMAD OF SAINT AUGUSTINE'S UNIVERSITY AND COURTNEY NAPIER, A WRITER AND JOURNALIST FOR PUBLICATIONS LIKE INDY WEEK AND SCALAWAG.

SO GLAD TO HAVE ALL OF YOU WITH US.

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> LET ME JUST OPEN UP WITH YOU JAMES.

WAS THE DECISION OF THE GOVERNOR AND OF THE STATE HEALTH DIRECTOR MADE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF TEACHERS OF STUDENTS OF PARENTS OF ALL CONCERNED?

>> I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION DEPENDS ON WHCIH CONSTITUENCY YOU BELONG TO.

I THINK THE INTENTION WAS CERTAINLY TO BE IN THE BEST BENEFIT OF STUDENTS, THE CONCERN OF THEM BEING OUT OF CLASS AND SOME OF THE SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL EDUCATION IMPACTS OF THAT.

HOWEVER, I MEAN IF YOU ARE A TEACHER, I THINK THE UNANIMOUS SORT OF FEELING IS THAT IT WASN'T YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU KNOW VACCINATION WAS NOT NECESSARILY A PART OF THAT PROCESS, THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR, FOLKS GETTING SICK IN MY REGION, SOUTHWEST, WE LOST TEACHERS FROM COVID-19 AND SO IF YOU'RE BLACK, RIGHT, THERE'S THESE DIFFERENT CONCERNS ABOUT THE VIRUS.

HOW IT IMPACTS US AND WHAT OUR RATES OF HOSPITALIZATION ARE, BUT I THINK GIVEN THE NUMBERS THEY SAW STARTING TO LOWER AND HOSPITALIZATIONS THE INTENTION WAS TO GIVE STUDENTS ACCESS TO IN PERSON LEARNING.

WHETHER IT SATISFIED, EVERYBODY, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE CASE.

>> WE'LL LET ME ASK YOU UMAR, WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE TIMING OF THE DECISION?

>> WELL, I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED THE TIMING - AND THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME - I WOULD PREFER TO TIMING TO BE DURING THE HOLIDAY BREAK SO THAT THERE COULD BE NECESSARY PREPARATION.

MANY THE UNIVERSITIES THAT ARE IN THE STATE WE PREPPED FOR HAVING IN PERSON DURING THE BREAK AND SO THE TEACHERS, PROFESSORS, YOU KNOW WE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO PREP OURSELVES, GET TESTED, DO THE THINGS NECESSARY THAT WOULD PUT US IN THE BEST POSSIBLE SITUATION TO SAY SAFE IN THE CLASSROOM.

>> SPECIFICALLY SPEAKING OF TIMING WITH REGARD TO THE RECENT CDC REPORT AND ALSO THE PASSAGE OF SENATE BILL 37 WHICH WAS AN ACT TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO IN PERSON LEARNING WAS THERE ANY POLITICKING GOING ON YOU THINK?

>> OH YEAH I THINK SO.

PUBLIC SCHOOLS PLACES SUCH A MAJOR PART IN OUR IN OUR LIVES, PARTICULARLY AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND AND THE NUMBERS, A POPULATION OF STUDENTS THAT ARE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN NORTH CAROLINA.

IT SHOWED.

I MEAN THE CDC PUTTING OUT INFORMATION ABOUT THAT YOU KNOW SAYING THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE SAFE, MOSTLY TO HAVE IN PERSON, I THINK THOSE 2 THINGS COMING TOGETHER THE TIMING AND THE ANNOUNCEMENT.

I DON'T I KNOW ANOTHER WAY YOU CAN SEE IT BESIDES POLITICS.

>> WELL, COURTNEY, LET ME GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS PARTICULARLY AS IT CONCERNS, TEACHERS IN CLASSROOMS AND TEACHERS NOT ONLY IN WAKE COUNTY BUT AROUND OUR STATE.

>> YES, EXACTLY WHAT MY 2 COLLEAGUES SAID IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

AND THIS IS A SCARY TIME.

OF COURSE WE WANT OUR KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL.

I WANT MY KID BACK IN SCHOOL, SHE'S IN KINDERGARTEN AND I LOVE THAT.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE COUNTIES AROUND THE STATE THAT DON'T HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY COMING IN LIKE A MECKLENBURG OR A WAKE, AND THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE THE HARDEST TIME TRANSITIONING AND MAKING SURE THAT THEIR SCHOOL SAFE, AND THERE'S NO RESOURCES ATTACHED TO THE SENATE BILL AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR A LOT OF THESE OTHER COUNTIES.

>> JAMES, WHAT KIND OF SUPPORT DO TEACHERS NEED?

WHAT COULD BE INCORPORATED POLICY WISE TO HELP THEM FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE AND BE SAFER?

>> I THINK THAT INSTANTLY MOVING HIM UP AND TERMS OF THEIR PRIORITY FOR VACCINATIONS WOULD HAVE BEEN A REAL BIG STEP.

YOU KNOW TEACHERS WANT TO GET BACK INTO THE CLASSROOM.

THEY JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO SO SAFELY AND SO I KNOW THEY'RE NUMBER 3 ON THE PRIORITY LIST.

RIGHT BEHIND SENIORS BUT HAD THERE HAD THAT SEQUENCE COME AFTER MANDATORY VACCINATIONS I FEEL LIKE THEY WOULD FELT MORE COMFORTABLE ABOUT THE DECISION.

>> I'D LIKE TO MOVE US ON TO TALKING ABOUT THIS DECISION THAT WAS RECENTLY MADE JUST THURSDAY NIGHT, THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION VOTED TO APPROVE A CHANGE IN SOCIAL STUDIES STANDARDS AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONFLICT OVER THIS WORDS LIKE SYSTEMIC RACISM, BUT AS AS I'VE UNDERSTOOD IT NOW THE WORD SYSTEMIC HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE CONVERSATION WHEN JAMES, LET ME JUST CONTINUE WITH YOU WHEN YOU HEAR THE WORD SYSTEMIC WHAT DOES THAT IMPLY OR WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN?

>> I THINK IT IMPLIES THAT THE RACISM WE'RE DEALING WITH PARTICULARLY HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN THE MOST PERNICIOUS IS THAT KIND OF LIVES IN SYSTEMS RIGHT AND IT'S LESS ABOUT INDIVIDUAL PERSONALITIES AND HOW THEY INTERACT WITH ONE PERSON OR ANOTHER.

YOU KNOW REDLINING WAS A POLICY RIGHT?

SEGREGATION WAS A POLICY AND LEGAL DISPOSITION AND WHILE I DON'T WANT SOMEBODY CALLING ME THE N WORD, I THINK MY ULTIMATELY IT'S WHEN SYSTEMS TREAT US THAT WAY, THAT HAS THE MOST HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE.

>> LET ME ASK YOU UMAR, WHEN IT COMES TO IMPLEMENTING THESE NEW STANDARDS WHAT KINDS OF ADDITIONAL CHANGES SUPPORT FOR TEACHERS YOU THINK IS GOING TO BE NEEDED.

>> WELL, THAT'S GOING TO BE A TOUGH ONE.

AS I WAS RESEARCHING THIS TOPIC, IT DAWNED ON ME THAT 80% OF OUR TEACHERS ARE WHITE FEMALES RIGHT SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MAKING THESE CHANGES OF RACISM, INSTITUTIONALLY THESE WORDS, YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THESE TEACHERS TEACHING THIS TOPIC, AND IT MAY NOT BE AN EASY CONVERSATION FOR THEM TO HAVE.

AND SO THAT'S GOING TO BE A TOUGH ROLE FOR THEM TO PULL.

YOU KNOW A LOT OF OUR STUDENTS ARE MINORITY MAJORITY AND SO HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS WE TYPICALLY WANT TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO LOOKS LIKE THEM IN THE FRONT OF THE CLASS MAKING THE HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM, BUT I THINK IT CAN BE DONE, IS JUST GOING TO TAKE A LARGE AMOUNT OF SUPPORT AND THE TEACHERS THEMSELVES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE OPEN TO LEARNING A NEW LANGUAGE NEW WAYS OF EXPRESSING WHAT IS REALITY FOR A LOT OF THEIR STUDENTS.

>> AND COURTNEY WHEN IT COMES TO EXPRESSING THAT REALITY AND THE REALITY THAT THE MAJORITY AS OMAR SAID OF TEACHERS IN THESE CLASSROOMS ARE WHITE WOMEN, WHAT KIND OF INTENTIONAL EFFORT NEEDS TO BE MADE SO THAT THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE TEACHING THIS MATERIAL AND SO THAT THE CHILDREN WHO ARE IN THE CLASSROOM ARE MADE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE WHETHER THEY'RE WHITE OR BLACK OR OR BROWN OR OTHERWISE?

>> YEAH THAT IS SUCH A GREAT QUESTION AND I FEEL LIKE AS FAR AS THE TEACHERS THEY NEED TO PUT THEMSELVES IN THE SHOES OF THE STUDENTS.

AS MY COLLEAGUE SAID WE HAVE A MINORITY MAJORITY IN OUR SCHOOLS AND I RECENTLY WROTE A PIECE COVERING THE WORK OF THE WAKE COUNTY BLACK STUDENT COALITION.

AND ONE OF THEIR DEMANDS IS THAT THEY HAVE COMPREHENSIVE BLACK AND INDIGENOUS HISTORY AS A PART OF THEIR CURRICULUM.

IT IS PROVEN THAT BLACK AND BROWN STUDENTS DO BETTER WHEN THEY SEE THEMSELVES REPRESENTED IN THE CURRICULUM S THAT THEY'RE BEING TAUGHT, AND SO I THINK WE HAVE TO PUT OUR COMFORT ASIDE A LITTLE BIT AND THINK ABOUT THE GENERATION THAT WE'RE LIFTING UP AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY FEEL ENGAGED AND SEEN AND EMPOWERED WITH THE CURRICULUMS THAT THEY'RE BEING TAUGHT.

>> ABSOLUTELY AND IN ANOTHER AREA.

WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAY HAVE MADE IT EASY FOR US TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL, AND IS ALSO CREATING SOME CONSTERNATION AND THAT IS VACCINATION HESITATION.

I LOVE THAT WE HAVE A TERM FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS.

[LAUGHTER] EVEN WITH ALL OF THE INFORMATION AND EDUCATION OUT THERE, AND TRUSTED LEADERS GETTING THESE VACCINES - I'M GOING TO OPEN UP WITH YOU UMAR - DO YOU UNDERSTAND VACCINE HESITATION?

>> I DO.

I HAVE TO BE HONEST.

I DO, I DON'T KNOW IF THE LEADERS THAT ARE BEING PUT IN FRONT OF US TAKING THE VACCINES ACTUALLY HAVE THE TRUST OF THE PEOPLE.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH, I DON'T KNOW IF PEOPLE I THINK AS A GENERAL DISTRUST OF GOVERNMENT.

AND SO YOU KNOW HAVING GOVERNMENT PUSH SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW THEY DON'T KNOW THE ANSWERS TO WHICH IS A CHALLENGE RIGHT, YOU KNOW, I WAS LISTENING TO PREGNANCY.

SHOULD WE TAKE THE VACCINE IF WE'RE PREGNANT.

SO THOSE ARE STUDIES THAT WEREN'T NECESSARILY PART OF THE FIRST CLINICAL TRIALS AND SO YOU KNOW PEOPLE JUST DON'T KNOW AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

THAT'S A MAJOR DECISION TO HAVE SOMETHING - HAVE A VACCINE, TAKE A VACCINE.

I'VE HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS THAT TAKE IT AND HAVE OTHERS WHO SAY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT SO I THINK IT'S A PERSONAL CHOICE.

I THINK WE SHOULD LEAVE IT AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND PERSONAL CHOICE, BUT I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD DEFINITELY TAKE PRECAUTIONS DO THE 3 W'S BUT VACCINATIONS IS ANOTHER LEVEL AND SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AS YOU KNOW DON'T BULLY US TO JUST ACCEPTING IT WITHOUT OUR OWN CONSCIOUSNESS OF APPROVING IT, BUT ALLOW US TO DO OUR OWN RESEARCH LISTEN TO THOSE THAT WE REALLY TRUST.

>> DO WE HAVE TIME FOR THAT?

JAMES DO WE HAVE TIME TO DO OUR OWN RESEARCH RIGHT NOW?

WHAT'S THE GREATER RISK COVID-19 OR THE VACCINATION?

>> YEAH, I'M NOT PREPARED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

THAT'S LIKE A TREE IN THE WOODS SITUATION.

BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT YOU KNOW IT'S A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE BLACK PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR AND AGAIN IT'S WHERE HISTORY IS IMPORTANT.

WE'RE NOT MOST OF US UNREASONABLE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS AND OUR APPREHENSION COMES FROM A HISTORICAL NARRATIVE THAT'S OFTEN NOT TAUGHT.

WHEN YOU READ BOOKS LIKE MEDICAL APARTHEID BY HARRIET WASHINGTON, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LITANY OF MOMENTS WHERE MEDICINE IS USED TO EXPERIMENT ON US, OR TO DO US HARM, AND SO THAT DISTRUST HAS BEEN WELL EARNED.

THE QUESTION YOU'RE ASKING IS YOU'RE EITHER GOING TO GET IT, WE'RE DISPROPORTIONATELY HARMED BY THE VIRUS, AND HOSPITALIZED AND DIE AT A HIGHER RATE OR YOU KNOW WE ALSO ARE ON THE RECEIVING END SOMETIMES SOME CONSPIRACIES, LEGITIMATE CONSPIRACIES.

SO, WHICH ONE -- I DON'T KNOW THAT'S A RISK ASSESSMENT EVERY PERSON HAS TO MAKE, UMAR, I'M VERY I DON'T HAVE I HAVEN'T ARRIVED AT A CONCLUSION YET FOR MYSELF SO IT'S TOUGH.

>> IT'S A TOUGH DECISION AND COURTNEY I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE ROLE OF MEDIA IN ALL THIS IN PARTICULARLY AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO ARE PURVEYORS OF INFORMATION.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY WE HAVE A ROLE.

WE HAVE AS THE MEDIA AS JOURNALISTS AS ANCHORS AND REPORTERS WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE UPLIFTING VERIFIABLE INFORMATION AND ALSO THAT WE ARE UPLIFTING THESE CONCERNS IN A WAY THAT'S RESPONSIBLE AND RESPECTFUL AND EMPATHETIC.

BUT WHAT WE CANNOT DO IS UPLIFT MISINFORMATION AND CONSPIRACY THEORIES FOR CLICK BAIT AND VIEWS AND SO WE REALLY HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WHAT VOICES WE'RE UPLIFTING AND ALSO I BELIEVE WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING ON BLACK LED ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE DOING SOME REALLY REALLY GREAT WORK LIKE NC BLACK ALLIANCE, LIFTING UP SEVERAL CHURCHES FROM ACROSS THE STATE THAT ARE PLACES WHERE PEOPLE CAN GET VACCINATIONS, PLACES WHERE PEOPLE ALREADY FEEL SAFE, WE ALREADY FEEL SAFE IN OUR BLACK CHURCHES AND THAT NEEDS TO BE REPORTED IN NORTH CAROLINA'S MAINSTREAM MEDIA SO THAT THEY KNOW THAT THIS IS A GOOD THING TO DO, IT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO DO, IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT PUBLIC HEALTH AND COLLECTIVE CARE.

>> BIG DECISIONS TO BE MADE WITH REGARD TO WHETHER TO VACCINATE BUT DEFINITELY AS YOU SAID UMAR WASH, MASK, DISTANCE.

DO ALL OF THOSE THINGS TO BE SAFE IN THE MEANTIME AND A BIG PART OF ANY CONVERSATION INVOLVING COVID IS THE MONEY.

RIGHT NOW LAWMAKERS ARE NEGOTIATING OVER A NEARLY 2 TRILLION DOLLAR PROPOSAL FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN.

HE SAYS HE'S WILLING TO WORK ACROSS THE AISLE, BUT SOME ASPECTS ARE NON NEGOTIABLE.

LET ME OPEN UP WITH YOU JAMES WITH WHAT'S NON-NEGOTIABLE.

WHAT CAN WE NOT GIVE ON, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, THE PRIORITIES OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND THE PRIORITIES OF AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO HELPED BUT BIDEN INTO OFFICE.

>> SO I'M GOING TO SAY ANYTHING THAT DISPROPORTIONATELY BENEFITS THOSE COMMUNITIES THAT WE CAN'T AFFORD TO GIVE ON, AND FROM A PERSONAL POLITICS STANDPOINT.

ON BIDEN, I HAVE A MANDATE, SO I'M NOT AS INTERESTED PRIORITIZE IN BIPARTISANSHIP NOT PARTICULARLY IN THIS ENVIRONMENT WHERE EVERYTHING IS CHARACTERIZED BY EXTREMES .

I THINK YOU HAVE TO DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET RELIEF AND HELP NOT STIMULUS BUT SURVIVAL MECHANISMS TO THE FOLKS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR PHYSICAL AND FINANCIAL HEALTH.

AND WHOEVER WANTS TO GET ON BOARD WITH DOING WHAT''S RIGHT BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE YOU REMAIN OPEN TO WORKING WITH THEM, BUT YOU HAVE A MANDATE TO SERVE THE BLACK AND BROWN MULTI RACIAL CONSTITUENCY THAT GOT YOU IN OFFICE AND ANYTHING BEYOND THAT IS IT'S NOT UP FOR NEGOTIATION AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.

>> COURTNEY, JAMES MENTIONED THIS CURRENT SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT AS KIND OF CREATING A DIFFERENT SITUATION FOR MAKING THESE DECISIONS AND SETTING PRIORITIES.

WHERE DO YOU SEE IS MORE IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW, THE BIPARTISANSHIP AND UNIFYING OR GETTING THROUGH AN ADEQUATE PACKAGE TO HELP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?

MAYBE THERE ONE IN THE SAME.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> YEAH, I THINK THE THEME FOR TODAY IS HISTORY.

AND AND THE GOP HAS A RECORD THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN ABLE TO PASS 2 STIMULUS PACKAGES AND THEY WERE VERY CLEAR WHO THEY ARE PASSING THOSE TO HELP AND PRIORITIZE AND THOSE WERE LARGE CORPORATIONS AND THE ONES THAT ARE FILLING THE FUNDRAISING COFFERS FOR THE PARTY, AND SO THIS IS THE DEMOCRATS TIME TO REALLY STEP UP AND TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THE PEOPLE, DO WHAT WE HAVE ALWAYS EXPECTED THEM TO DO WHEN THEY WON THE MAJORITY IN CONGRESS, WHICH IS PRIORITIZE WORKING FAMILIES AND STRUGGLING FAMILIES.

>> UMAR, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE WINS AND LOSSES ARE FOR DEMOCRATS, FOR REPUBLICANS.

IF THE CONGRESS HAS TO RESORT TO USING RECONCILIATION TO GET THE THE MULTI TRILLION DOLLAR PACKAGE PASSED?

WHAT GETS COMPROMISE?

>> WELL I THINK ANY ANY AMOUNT OF BIPARTISANSHIP THAT LINGERS AT ALL, I THINK WE PROBABLY LOSE IT.

HOWEVER, I THINK THAT AT THIS TIME AND STAGE THAT WE'RE IN, I DON'T THINK IT'S TIME TO DILLY AND DALLY I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE AN EFFORT TO GET DONE WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

I ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE PACKAGE IS NOT BIG ENOUGH ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT SHOULDN'T BE STIMULUS SHOULD BE A RECONSTRUCTION PACKAGE, OUR COMMUNITIES NEED OUR SCHOOLS REBUILT, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TIME THAT WE CAN REPURPOSE OUR SCHOOLS WE PUT SO MUCH INTO SCHOOL SYSTEMS, IN OUR COMMUNITIES, WE STRAIN AND WE DRAIN THEM, I THINK IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BIGGER, SHOULD HAVE BEEN A LIKE I SAID A RECONSTRUCTION PACKAGE SO I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BIPARTISANSHIP RIGHT NOW AS THEY SAY.

I THINK IT'S AS HE SAID IT'S DEAD.

AND I THINK IT CAN BE REVIVED, BUT I DON'T THINK THIS IS A TIME TO REALLY FOCUS ON BIPARTISANSHIP, IT'S A TIME TO GET SOME THINGS DONE HELP TO PEOPLE EVEN IF IT'S A SHORT TERM QUOTE, UNQUOTE STIMULUS WE NEED TO PUT SOME THINGS IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

SO THAT THEY CAN BEGIN TO START ON REVITALIZING THEMSELVES.

>> JAMES LET ME ASK YOU BASED ON WHAT YOU HEARD OF THE REPUBLICAN PACKAGE, HOW DOES THAT MEET THE MOMENT?

>> IT DOESN'T.

[PAUSE, THEN LAUGHTER] >> NO, IT DOESN'T.

AGAIN IT PRIORITIZES THIS NOTION OF FISCAL CONSERVATISM WHICH IS FINE IF THAT'S YOUR POLITICAL OUTLOOK RIGHT.

BUT WE ARE IN - IT'S AN UNDERSTATEMENT TO SAY WE ARE IN A STATE OF EMERGENCY.

I MEAN WE REALLY ARE, AND TO THE POINT MADE EARLIER BY MY COLLEAGUE, WHEN THEY HAD CONTROL THEY WERE CLEAR ON WHAT THEY WANTED TO PRIORITIZE, RIGHT?

THERE WAS NO CONCERN ABOUT DEFICIT.

THERE WAS NO CONCERN ABOUT ONE PARTICULAR CONSTITUENCY WHO DISPROPORTIONATELY BENEFITS AND SO WE'RE MAKING A CALCULATION BUDGETS ARE MORE DOCUMENTS AND SO WHEN YOU ARE OVERLY CONCERNED WITH CREATING SOMETHING THAT'S A FRACTION OF A PACKAGE THAT TO UMAR'S POINT WAS NOT BIG ENOUGH, THAT TELLS ME THAT TELEGRAPHS TO ME WHAT YOUR VALUES ARE, AND SO IT'S NOT ADEQUATE, AND I THINK THAT THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WOULD TELL YOU THAT RIGHT NOW.

>> LET'S HOPE A DECISION IS MADE TO BENEFIT MOST AMERICANS WHO ARE OUT THERE ARE SUFFERING RIGHT NOW APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU BEING WITH US TODAY.

>> THANK YOU >> THANK YOU.

>> AS WE CELEBRATE BLACK HISTORY MONTH, BE SURE TO CHECK OUT SOME OF THE PROGRAMMING AVAILABLE ON PBSNC.

AN UPCOMING SPECIAL EXECUTIVE PRODUCED BY DOCTOR HENRY LOUIS GATES EXPLORES THE 400 YEAR STORY OF THE BLACK CHURCH IN AMERICA.

THE SERIES TRACES THE CHURCH'S HISTORY FROM THE TRANS ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE, THROUGH THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, TO NOW.

THE BLACK CHURCH AIRS FEBRUARY 16TH, AND 17TH RIGHT HERE ON PBSNC.

AND I'D ONCE AGAIN LIKE TO THANK LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR MARK ROBINSON, JAMES FORD, UMAR MUHAMMAD, AND COURTNEY NAPIER FOR ALL BEING HERE TODAY.

IF YOU WANT TO REACH US ON TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM JUST USE THE HASHTAG NCBLACKISSUES, YOU CAN ALSO FIND OUR OTHER EPISODES ON PBSNC.ORG/BLACKISSUESFORUM.

I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

♪ >> QUALITY PUBLIC TELEVISIION IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE FINANCIAL CONTRUBUTIONS OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU WHO INVITE YOU TO JOIN THEM IN SUPPORTING PBSNC.