>> NOW, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS FACING PUSHBACK OVER THEIR REPEAL OF THE 2009 ENDANGERMENT FINDING, WHICH RECOGNIZED THE HARMFUL EFFECTS OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC HEALTH AND LED TO THE REGULATION OF POLLUTION.

MORE THAN A DOZEN MAJOR ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS HAVE NOW FILED LAWSUITS, WHILE CRITICS HAVE DESCRIBED THE MOVE AS SHAMEFUL, INCLUDING ENVIRONMENTALIST BILL M cKIBBEN, WHO VIEWS THIS AS EVIDENCE OF AMERICA'S "DESCENT INTO "IDIOCRACY"" AND HE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THE IMPACT OF THIS BLOW TO U. S. CLIMATE POLICY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AGAIN.

YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO'S TRACKED CLIMATE ISSUES AND BEEN ACTIVE IN THIS FOR DECADES NOW, AND IF YOU COULD JUST GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHERE WE ARE KIND OF IN THIS ARC OF TRYING TO FIGHT CLIMATE CHANGE OR MITIGATE THE EFFECTS.

>> WELL, FIRST ANSWER IS, WE'RE GETTING CLOBBERED.

THE TEMPERATURE JUST KEEPS RISING.

THE LAST THREE YEARS HAVE BEEN THE HOTTEST YEARS WE'VE EVER RECORDED.

THE NEWS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS IS THAT IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE HEADED INTO A NEW EL NINO CYCLE, AND PERHAPS A VIOLENT ONE.

IF THAT'S EVEN CLOSE TO TRUE, THEN 2026 AND DEFINITELY 2027 WILL BE SETTING YET AGAIN NEW RECORDS WITH ALL THE CHAOS THAT ENTAILS.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT WE HAVE A TOOL TO SLOW DOWN THIS RISE IN TEMPERATURE.

THE RAPID SURGE IN CHEAP, CLEAN ENERGY THAT, IN MOST OF THE WORLD, IS LEADING TO A VERY RAPID ENERGY TRANSITION.

THE BAD NEWS IS THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS DECIDED NOT ONLY DOES IT NOT WANT TO TAKE PART IN THAT ENERGY TRANSITION, IT WANTS TO TRY AND SLOW IT DOWN.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE MORE POSSIBILITY THAN WE HAVE HAD BEFORE, AND WE'RE NOT SEIZING THAT POSSIBILITY WITH BOTH HANDS.

>> JUST RECENTLY, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ROLLED BACK ITS ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY'S --OUR ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY'S ENDANGERMENT FINDING, AND THAT WAS A DECISION THAT YOU SAID IS EVIDENCE OF AMERICA'S DESCENT INTO "IDIOCRACY" AND NOW THERE'S ALREADY LAWSUITS KIND OF CHALLENGING THAT, BUT FOR MEMBERS OF OUR AUDIENCE WHO ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH IT, WHY IS IT SO SIGNIFICANT?

>> WELL, LET'S JUST SAY WHAT IT IS.

IT WAS THE EPA DECIDING, ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO, THAT CARBON DIOXIDE IN THE ATMOSPHERE POSED A DANGER TO HUMANS.

THIS WAS A --THEY WERE LATE TO THE GAME 20 YEARS AGO IN FIGURING THIS OUT.

FOR 40 YEARS, SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN TELLING US THAT THE WORST THING THAT HUMANS HAVE EVER DONE IS CHANGE THE CHEMISTRY OF THE ATMOSPHERE AND HENCE HEAT THE EARTH.

FINALLY, THE EPA RECOGNIZED THIS, WHICH ALLOWED THE U. S. TO BEGIN TO TAKE AT LEAST MODEST POLICY STEPS TO START REPLACING SOME COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS WITH GAS-FIRED POWER PLANTS, TO SPUR THE DEVELOPMENT OF EVs.

ALL THE THINGS THAT BEGAN THIS ENERGY TRANSITION, ALBEIT SLOWLY.

BUT ALSO, ALL THE THINGS THAT ANGERED THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY AND THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY IS IN OUR COUNTRY POLITICALLY POWERFUL.

YOU'LL REMEMBER CANDIDATE TRUMP TELLING HEADS OF THE OIL INDUSTRY THAT IF THEY GAVE HIM A BILLION DOLLARS IN CAMPAIGN DONATIONS, THEY WOULD GET ANYTHING THEY WANTED.

THEY ENDED UP BETWEEN DONATIONS AND ADVERTISING AND LOBBYING, SPENDING ABOUT HALF A BILLION IN THE LAST ELECTION CYCLE.

AND CLEARLY, THAT WAS ENOUGH, NOT ONLY HAVE WE SHUT DOWN WIND FARMS THAT WERE 90% COMPLETE, PUT HUGE SWATHS OF THE COUNTRY OFF- LIMITS TO SOLAR PANELS, WE'VE ALSO NOW ISSUED THIS PROCLAMATION THAT PHYSICS IS WRONG.

LOOK, THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT THE DANGER POSED BY CARBON DIOXIDE.

EVERY SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZATION, EVERY PRESIDENT OF THE GLOBAL WARMING ERA PRIOR TO TRUMP, INDEED, ALL THE BIG OIL COMPANIES HAVE LONG SINCE CONCEDED THAT THIS IS BASIC PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL FACT.

ONLY NOW, IN OUR UPSIDE-DOWN WORLD, ARE WE OFFICIALLY INSISTING THAT IT'S NOT A PROBLEM.

>> YOU KNOW, THE HEAD OF THE EPA, ADMINISTRATOR LEE ZELDEN, HE SAID THAT THE ENDANGERMENT FINDING "LED TO TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN REGULATIONS THAT STRANGLED ENTIRE SECTORS OF THE UNITED STATES ECONOMY, INCLUDING THE AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY. "

DOES HE HAVE A POINT?

>> NO.

WHAT'S GOING TO KILL OFF THE AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY, AND I'M AFRAID IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN RELATIVELY SHORT ORDER, IS OUR DECISION TO, UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BYPASS WHAT THE REAL REVOLUTION IN CARS IS.

AND THAT'S ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

AROUND THE WORLD NOW, THE CHINESE ARE EATING OUR LUNCH.

IN FACT, WE'RE CATERING THE LUNCH THAT THEY'RE DEVOURING BY OUR PIG-HEADEDNESS HERE.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, DETROIT IS NO LONGER THE CENTER OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY.

IT'S THREE CITIES IN CHINA WHOSE NAMES I FIND IT DIFFICULT TO PRONOUNCE.

THEY'RE PRODUCING MORE CARS AND BETTER CARS, AND OUR ONLY HOPE IS TRYING TO COMPETE HEAD- ON WITH THEM, NOT PRETENDING THAT THEY'RE NOT NOW ON THE FOREFRONT OF AUTOMOBILE TECHNOLOGY.

>> IS THERE A CULTURAL GAP HERE?

I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS OF EV ADOPTION RATES AND WHO'S BUYING ELECTRIC VEHICLES, AND WHETHER IT'S SOUTH KOREA, WHETHER IT'S, OF COURSE, CHINA, NORWAY, I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE MARKET AUDIENCES, CUSTOMERS, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, ARE CHOOSING ELECTRIC VEHICLES, AND HERE, THAT'S NOT THE CASE, EVEN WITH SUBSIDIES THAT WE HAD TO TRY TO MAKE THEM MORE ATTRACTIVE.

>> YEAH, WELL, WE TOOK AWAY THE SUBSIDIES RIGHT AS THEY WERE STARTING TO WORK.

BUT THERE'S ACTUALLY BEEN A LOT OF REALLY INTERESTING WORK ABOUT THIS, EVEN IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS.

A STUDY FINDING SOMETHING THAT I HAD ALWAYS THOUGHT MIGHT BE TRUE, AND TURNS OUT TO BE TRUE, AUTO DEALERS WERE DISCOURAGING CUSTOMERS FROM BUYING EVs.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY DON'T BREAK DOWN VERY OFTEN.

THEY HAVE VERY FEW MOVING PARTS, AND IT TURNS OUT THAT FOR AN AUTO DEALER, SERVICE AND REPAIR ARE THE BIGGEST PARTS OF YOUR INCOME.

THEY HAD A BIG VESTED INTEREST IN KEEPING PEOPLE IN CRAPPY CARS THAT BREAK DOWN.

THESE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT PUBLIC POLICY NEEDS TO GO AFTER AND GO AFTER FAST.

BECAUSE YEAH, IT'S NORWAY AND CHINA, BUT NOW, IT'S, YOU KNOW, ETHIOPIA.

IT'S INDONESIA.

IT'S EVERY FAST-DEVELOPING MARKET ON EARTH IS GOING STRAIGHT TO EVs, AND NOT JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE BETTER CARS.

BECAUSE THEY SAVE MANY, MANY TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PUBLIC HEALTH COSTS.

ONE DEATH IN FIVE ON THIS PLANET IS --COMES FROM BREATHING THE COMBUSTION BY-PRODUCTS OF FOSSIL FUELS, THOSE PARTICULATES THAT LODGE IN YOUR LUNGS.

THAT COSTS INSANE AMOUNTS OF MONEY THAT WE DON'T NEED TO SPEND, BECAUSE WE HAVE THINGS LIKE EVs OR HEAT PUMPS FOR YOUR HOME THAT RUN CHEAP AND CLEAN.

THE IRONY OF WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IS PARTLY THAT WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT MORE THAT WE'RE ALLOWING EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TO INSTALL CHEAP ENERGY WILLY-NILLY.

THE CHINESE HAVE BEEN PUTTING UP SOLAR PANELS AT AN ASTONISHING PACE.

THIS TIME LAST YEAR, THEY WERE BUILDING THREE GIGAWATTS A DAY OF SOLAR POWER.

GIGAWATT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF A LARGE COAL-FIRED POWER PLANT.

THEY WERE PUTTING UP ONE OF THOSE EVERY EIGHT HOURS WITH SOLAR PANELS.

DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH CHEAP ENERGY THEY NOW HAVE FLOODING THEIR SYSTEM?

WHATEVER IT IS YOU WANT TO DO, BUILD STEEL, RUN DATACENTERS, MAKE CARS, WHATEVER IT IS, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE AN ENDLESS ADVANTAGE WHILE WE'RE - - AND THIS PART JUST BLOWS MY MIND - - WE'RE LITERALLY CLOSING DOWN, TRYING TO CLOSE DOWN 90%- FINISHED WIND FARMS OFF THE COAST OF NEW ENGLAND BECAUSE THEY PROVIDE TOO MUCH COMPETITION TO THE OIL INDUSTRY WHO HAVE GIVEN TOO MANY CAMPAIGN DONATIONS TO BE DENIED.

>> YOU'VE ALSO CALLED THIS KIND OF ATTACK, WHETHER IT'S ON WIND FARMS OR ABOUT ROLLING BACK THE SUBSIDIES AND SO FORTH, YOU SAID IT'S AT LEAST POSSIBLE THAT TRUMP AND COMPANY, THEIR ASSAULT ON ENVIRONMENTAL NORMS, IS MORE SHRILL THAN CONFIDENT.

HOW SO?

>> WELL, HERE'S AN INTERESTING STATISTIC.

YOU KNOW THE STATE THAT'S NOW BUILDING CLEAN ENERGY, SUN, WIND, BATTERIES, FASTEST?

THE LONE STAR STATE OF TEXAS, WHICH IS ALSO THE WORLD HEADQUARTERS OF THE HYDROCARBON INDUSTRY.

ECONOMICS ARE SO POWERFUL HERE THAT EVEN IN TEXAS, THEY'RE HAVING A VERY HARD TIME SLOWING DOWN THE ADOPTION OF CLEAN ENERGY.

THAT'S WHY THEY'RE HAVING TO DENY THE MOST BASIC FORMS OF SCIENCE, IN AN EFFORT TO UNDERCUT CHEAP, CLEAN ENERGY.

IT'S ASTONISHING.

WE'VE BEEN GIVEN THIS GIFT, AND WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT ONLY LOOKING THE GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH, WE'RE --WE'VE PULLED OUT THE REVOLVER AND WE'RE TRYING TO SHOOT IT BETWEEN THE EYES.

>> MARGOT, WHO SERVED AS THE EPA'S TOP VEHICLE EMISSIONS REGULATOR UNDER THREE DIFFERENT PRESIDENTS, SHE TOLD "THE NEW YORK TIMES" RECENTLY THAT "THE U. S. NO LONGER HAS EMISSIONS STANDARDS OF ANY MEANING. "

AND I WONDER WHAT IMPACT THAT HAS ON NOT JUST THE AUTO INDUSTRY BUT, YOU KNOW, THE ENERGY CREATION INDUSTRY, ALL THE --HOW'S IT GOING TO IMPACT US IF WE ARE IN A COMPLETELY DEREGULATED ENVIRONMENT?

>> WELL, ONE ANSWER IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH DO YOU LIKE TO WREATH?

BREATHE?

AND HOW MUCH DO YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR KIDS' LUNGS?

WE'RE GOING STRAIGHT BACK INTO A WORLD WHERE WE HAVE THE KIND OF CONDITIONS, THE SORT OF SMOG AND THINGS, THAT 50 YEARS AGO, GAVE RISE TO THE CLEAN AIR ACT AND THE EPA.

AND THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW --I MEAN, THIS IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

IN NEW DELHI RIGHT NOW, THE AIR IS SO BAD THAT OF THE FIVE MILLION CHILDREN WHO LIVE THERE, TWO AND A HALF MILLION HAVE IRREVERSIBLE LUNG DAMAGE FROM BREATHING THE AIR.

HOPEFULLY, WE'LL STOP SHORT BEFORE WE GET THERE, BUT THIS IS JUST DUMB ON EVERY FRONT.

BUT THE PLACE WHERE --I MEAN, REALLY, PEOPLE SHOULD JUST BE CLEAR IS WE'RE GIVING AWAY THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY TO CHINA.

WE'RE TAKING WHAT'S BEEN A CENTERPIECE OF AMERICAN INDUSTRY FOR MORE THAN A HUNDRED YEARS.

I MEAN, HENRY FORD REALLY INVENTED THE MASS PRODUCTION OF AUTOMOBILES.

AND NOW, WE'RE JUST HANDING IT OVER.

AND THE COST FOR DOING THAT, TO THE AUTO INDUSTRY, TO THE AUTO PARTS INDUSTRY, TO THE ENTIRE REGIONS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE THIS IS BACKBONE OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY, THAT'S GOING TO BE JUST ASTONISHING.

AND THAT WE'VE DONE IT IN A YEAR.

I'M NOT SURE THERE'S EVER BEEN A KIND OF NATIONAL ACT OF ECONOMIC SELF-SABOTAGE ON QUITE THIS SCALE.

>> IS THIS SOMETHING THAT JUST GETS FIXED WITH ANOTHER ELECTION AND A DIFFERENT CHOICE AT THE POLLS?

I MEAN, YOU'RE --WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING ARE REALLY LAYERS OF INFRASTRUCTURE BEING DISMANTLED, WHICH TOOK DECADES TO BUILD.

>> SO, THERE'S SEVERAL PROBLEMS HERE.

ONE, YEAH, YOU KNOW, THEORETICALLY, AND PROBABLY, THE NEXT PRESIDENT WILL TRY TO DO SOMETHING TO, YOU KNOW, UNDO SOME OF THIS DAMAGE.

BUT IT'S NOT LIKE THE CHINESE ARE STANDING STILL.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE MILES UPON MILES UPON MILES AHEAD OF US BY THE TIME WE DIG OURSELVES OUT OF THIS HOLE.

AND IT'S ALSO NOT LIKE PHYSICS AND CHEMISTRY IN THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE ARE STANDING STILL.

THE RATE AT WHICH THE PLANET IS HEATING IS CLEARLY ACCELERATING, AND THE IMPACTS OF THAT ARE CLEARLY ACCELERATING.

WE'VE JUST HAD AN EXTRAORDINARY BLIZZARD OFF THE EAST COAST, SOME OF THE HIGHEST SNOWFALLS EVER RECORDED, AND IT'S BECAUSE THE OCEAN IS SO WARM NOW THAT WHEN STORMS COME ACROSS IT, THEY CAN PICK UP HUGE AMOUNTS OF MOISTURE.

WARM AIR HOLDS MORE WATER VAPOR THAN COLD, AND WE SEE THAT ALL OVER THE PLACE NOW.

SO, OUR MARGIN FOR ERROR IS SMALLER THAN WE MIGHT THINK.

I'M AFRAID THAT THIS IS A CATASTROPHIC FOUR YEARS THAT WE'RE PLAYING AROUND IN RIGHT NOW.

>> AS YOU POINT OUT, WE ARE SEEING AND LIVING THROUGH THE EXAMPLES OF EXTREME WEATHER, SO MUCH MORE FREQUENTLY, AND YET, IT SEEMS TO BE LESS OF A TOPIC THAT'S RIGHT ON THE POLITICAL MAIN STAGE.

WHEREAS YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, RED AMERICA AND BLUE AMERICA BEING AFFECTED EQUALLY BY MASSIVE FLOODS AND WILDFIRES AND HURRICANES THAT ARE MORE SEVERE THAN THEY USED TO BE.

>> WELL, FIRST THING IS, IT'S BASICALLY, IN THIS COUNTRY, THAT WE'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO IT.

THE REST OF THE WORLD CONTINUES HARD AT WORK HERE AND ARGUABLY THE CHINESE ARE TAKING OVER THE SPACE VACATED BY THE U. S. AS THE WORLD LEADER ON THESE QUESTIONS, TRYING TO ORGANIZE THE REST OF THE PLANET.

BUT IN THIS COUNTRY, YEAH, TWO THINGS HAPPENED.

ONE, UNDER JOE BIDEN, WE PASSED THIS INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, WHICH WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

SO, IT LESSENED A LOT OF THE POLITICAL IMPETUS AROUND IT, AND THEN IT WAS IMMEDIATELY TAKEN AWAY BY THE NEW REPUBLICAN CONGRESS.

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A TEN-YEAR PROGRAM OF INDUSTRIAL SUPPORT TO BUILD THE FACTORIES AND THINGS, AND THAT ENDED AFTER ONE YEAR INSTEAD OF TEN.

SO, IT'LL TAKE A LITTLE WHILE TO REBUILD THAT KIND OF SUPPORT, AND IN THE MEANTIME, SADLY, THERE ARE TWO OR THREE OTHER POLITICAL ISSUES THAT ARE -- MOVE THEMSELVES TO THE FORE.

LOOK, EVERY SINGLE DAY, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT'S HAPPENING ON THE PLANET IS THE CHANGE IN THE CHEMISTRY OF THE ATMOSPHERE.

BUT IT'S NEVER ON ANY GIVEN DAY THE MOST VISIBLE THING THAT'S HAPPENING.

WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS SHOOTING PEOPLE IN THE STREET WITH MASKED AGENTS, IT'S NO WONDER THAT WE'RE PAYING SOME ATTENTION TO OTHER THINGS INSTEAD.

>> IS THERE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE SPOKE LAST, IN MARCH OF 2022, YOU MENTIONED, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT BOYCOTTING RUSSIAN OIL WOULD CURB PUTIN'S INVASION OF UKRAINE.

AND HERE WE ARE, YOU KNOW, FOUR MORE YEARS OF THAT WAR HAS HAPPENED.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME EFFORTS TO TRY TO PRESSURE INDIA FROM BUYING RUSSIAN OIL.

EUROPEAN UNION, AMERICA HAVE WITHDRAWN A LOT OF THEIR SUPPORT FOR RUSSIAN OIL.

WHY HASN'T IT WORKED?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK IT PROBABLY PRETTY MUCH HAS WORKED.

I MEAN, ANOTHER WAY TO ASK THIS QUESTION IS, FOUR YEARS ON, THE VASTLY LARGER RUSSIAN MILITARY IS COMPLETELY UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT UKRAINE.

IT CAN'T MOVE MORE THAN A FEW MILES A MONTH, AND IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE RUNNING OUT OF MONEY AND MATERIAL.

AND THE REASON IS THAT THERE'S BEEN A RELATIVELY EFFECTIVE BOYCOTT OF THEIR FOSSIL FUEL INTERESTS.

THERE ARE PLACES LIKE INDIA THAT HAVE CONTINUED TO BUY A LOT, BUT THEY'RE BUYING IT SUPER CHEAP AND THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY IS FALLING APART.

IF IT DIDN'T HAVE A BIG FRIEND IN THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW, THEY'D PROBABLY BE OVER THE BRINK, AND WE'RE PROBABLY AT THE POINT WHERE A LITTLE MORE PRESSURE FROM, SAY, THE UNITED STATES WOULD BE ENOUGH TO SEND THEM THERE.

I THINK --I GOT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, ALONGSIDE THE PEOPLE OF MINNEAPOLIS, THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE SEEM TO ME TO DESERVE ENORMOUS PRAISE FOR HAVING A LOT OF BRAVERY AND STANDING UP TO ENORMOUS ODDS FOR A LONG TIME.

>> YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF LAST YEAR, AS SOMEONE WITH A VERY LARGE MEGAPHONE, WHICH IS BILL GATES, HAD AN ESSAY ARGUING THAT FINANCIAL RESOURCES SHOULD BE SHIFTED AWAY FROM THE FIGHT AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE.

HIS QUOTE WAS, "ALTHOUGH CLIMATE CHANGE WILL HAVE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES, PARTICULARLY FOR PEOPLE IN THE POOREST COUNTRIES, IT WILL NOT LEAD TO HUMANITY'S DEMISE.

HEALTH AND PROSPERITY ARE THE BEST DEFENSE AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE. "

YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WELL, I WROTE IMMEDIATELY ABOUT THAT TO POINT OUT THAT, WELL, A, THAT GATES HAS BEEN WRONG ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE ALMOST FROM THE BEGINNING.

AND B, THAT IN THOSE PARTICULAR WAYS, HE'S COMPLETELY WRONG.

THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION HAS MADE CLEAR THAT THE BIGGEST THREAT TO HUMAN HEALTH GOING FORWARD THIS CENTURY IS THE RAPID RISE IN TEMPERATURE.

WE'RE SEEING EXTRAORDINARY MIGRATIONS NOW AROUND THE PLANET BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY GOTTEN TOO HOT OR PEOPLE'S HOMES ARE GOING UNDER WATER OR THE FLOODING IS TOO INTENSE, AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT DRIVE THE KIND OF PANDEMICS AND FAMINES THAT GATES --BUT I GOT TO SAY, AT THIS POINT, TOO, I THINK IF WE LEARN ANYTHING FROM THE EPSTEIN BUSINESS, IT'S MAYBE THAT IT'S TIME TO STOP PAYING QUITE AS MUCH ATTENTION TO WHAT PEOPLE SAY SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A BILLION DOLLARS.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A GUARANTEE EITHER OF GOOD SENSE OR COMMON MORALITY.

>> BILL McKIBBEN, FOUNDER OF THIRD ACT AND CONTRIBUTING WRITER AT "THE NEW YORKER," THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> WHAT A PLEASURE, TAKE GOOD CARE.