- [Announcer] Funding for "Overheard with Evan Smith" comes from HillCo Partners, a Texas government affairs consultancy, Claire and Carl Stuart, Christine and Philip Dial, Eller Group, specializing in crisis management, litigation and public affairs communication, EllerGroup.com, Diane Land and Steve Adler, and Karey and Chris Oddo.

- I'm Evan Smith.

He's a comedian, actor and writer who was a featured player on Saturday Night Live's 50th season.

He's Emil Wakim.

This is "Overheard."

(upbeat music) A platform and a voice is a powerful thing.

You really turn the conversation around about what leadership should be about.

Are we blowing this?

Are we doing the thing we shouldn't be doing by giving in to the attention junkie?

As an industry, we have an obligation to hold ourselves to the same standards that we hold everybody else.

This is "Overheard."

(audience applauding) Emil Wakim, welcome.

- Hey, thanks for having me.

- It's very nice to meet you.

You are a funny guy, man.

I am so happy to get to tell you that because often people go on television and think they're funny and are not, and you have to pretend that they're funny.

- [Emil] Right.

- Every time you showed up on my TV screen during that season of "Saturday Night Live," I thought I want more of him.

- Thanks.

- I thought he's hilarious.

- That's super sweet.

- It must have been for you what a trip, what an honor to be on that show.

- Yeah, it still kind of is.

I think you still just are like, yeah, it feels like a, like a pipe dream kind of.

- So the 50th season would've been '24, '25, right?

- [Emil] Ah, yes.

- Yeah.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- So how much time before the fall of '24 do you know that you're gonna be on the show?

- I had no idea.

They, I had been submitted to audition a couple years prior.

- [Evan] Previously.

- Maybe two or three years in a row.

You know, you have reps, and they just send your, you know, clip in.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- And then there's always like showcase sets around New York, LA, Chicago.

- And the people from Saturday Night Live, they come and see.

- Yeah.

- To scout.

- There's different rounds.

There's like a first round, just kind of, and these lineups are just like 12 comedians.

Everyone doing five minutes, and there's like, whatever, five, six shows a week.

- And do you know that you're auditioning when you're doing that?

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So those, and I never got one of those before.

So I never got to the, even the first round stage.

And then I think it was like August of '24, 2024.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- I was, I was supposed to be in Lebanon visiting family, and then there was a thing, and so I had to cancel the trip, but I had already sublet my place in New York for the month.

So I was like, all right, I'll just go.

So I just went back to Chicago.

I was just at my parents' house.

Like, I was like I'll just be home for a little, chill, whatever.

I'll like write, I'll try to like.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- You know, be productive.

And then my manager called me, and he was like, Hey, SNL wants to see you audition on Monday in New York.

And I was like, okay.

- On the stage.

- No, this is just a first round one.

So he was just like, they just want, they want to see.

- So not on set, but somewhere else.

- At Union Hall, at this venue in New York.

- Yeah, right.

- It's the first time I've ever gotten like an audition.

And I was like, okay.

So I like bought a ticket, went, I was like all right.

You know, cool.

Told my parents, I was like, it's nothing yet, but just like, I'm gonna go do this thing.

And they're like, okay.

Like my dad was like, oh my God.

I was like, no, no, no.

Don't like.

- Right, yeah.

- Don't blow it up for me yet.

- Right, yeah.

- You know, like be calm.

And then I remember I went and I did it, and I was, went in very like, they're not, you know, I was like I'm doing standup.

I was like just do what you wanna do 'cause like they're probably not gonna pick you.

Which was the best mentality to go in with.

- Swing away.

- Yeah truly.

So I was like lucky that I didn't really think of anything really.

And so went, had a good set, had a good time, and then got a call afterwards.

My manager was like they wanna see you again tomorrow.

There's more people that are gonna come from the show.

And I was like okay, cool.

Getting like a little more real.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- And I was like, all right, and he was like, do the same five, the same set.

And I was like, okay.

And then did it again the next night, had a good set, had a good time, you know, it was good.

And then got a call Wednesday, and they were like, they want you to screen test on Thursday at 30 Rock.

And I was like, okay.

And then that was like the big one.

That's the one you hear about where like Lorne's in the shadows, and you can, you know what I mean?

- All right, so you go and you do that.

- I go and I do that, kind of just the most insane thing.

You know, you're like in the kind of these like tunnels of the show.

You don't really know what the stage is like.

- [Evan] Right.

- You're getting escorted around.

You're in a green room for a while.

They're like, we'll come and tell you when you're like 10 minutes out and when you're five minutes out.

And there's other people there that are doing it, but you're kind of.

- You have a sense that other people are also doing it.

- For sure, you see them, but then you're separated, and you're kind of iced, and then they just come get you, and then they take you and you're walking, and then all of a sudden you're just like there's the stage.

- [Evan] There you are, right.

- Yeah.

- [Evan] We've all seen it.

- We've all seen it.

- [Evan] From our living rooms.

- Exactly, yeah.

- Right, you know, a lot of people talk about auditioning a bunch of times.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- And not getting it and then finally getting it or auditioning a bunch of times and never getting it.

This was your one?

- Yeah, I got one.

- Amazing.

- And then I got a one year, so it's like I kind of countered it.

- Well, you ended up being one and done as we say in college basketball.

- Yeah, yeah.

- But let's come to that at the end.

- Yeah.

- What was it like?

- It was amazing.

- To be on that show.

- It was amazing.

It was like such a dream.

I mean, yeah, it was like, it was more than a dream.

It was everything.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- Because I think, you know, I grew up, in kind of my era of it was like Andy Sandberg, like, you know, Bill Hader, Will Forte era, which just like, you know, framed my friends and I's like comedy sense and everything.

And so then yeah, I started doing standup, and I was like this isn't, you know, this probably isn't in the cards.

This is like more improv.

- [Evan] Right.

- Route to get there.

But then the fact that it even happened was crazy.

Yeah, it was beyond a dream.

It was crazy.

- Well, you're in a small club.

- Yeah.

- They can never take that away from you.

- They can't.

- Right?

- I'm on the wall.

- And again, back to being funny, you're in a small club and an even smaller club of people who are actually talented.

- Wow, thanks.

- Because, right?

Because sometimes, I mean, let's just say that.

- A subset of a subset.

- Let's say the, real talk.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Let's say the quiet part out loud.

Not everybody who's on that show necessarily lands.

- It's a weird place.

- Yeah.

- It's a weird place.

It's been around for 50 years.

That's a hard, that's hard to do.

- [Evan] Right.

- The audience is like always changing.

Yeah, it's great.

It's on cable, so you have to be appropriate and also quick and turn it around in a week.

So it's like, yeah, it's a tough place to connect.

- Yeah.

- In any way.

- Yeah, hard to succeed, and if you do succeed, boy, that's a great thing.

- Yeah, hard to get on it.

Hard to, once you're there, hard to get stuff on.

Once it's there, hard to get it to dress and then to air.

It's like there's all these.

- So say more about that.

I'm interested in the way things are made.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- Process.

How do you get on the air?

How much do you write for yourself?

How much do you write for other people if you're in the cast?

Like how does all that stuff work?

- Yeah, I mean, first year people are like, okay, if you're cast, you're like expected to kind of write maybe a thing a week.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- And you kinda submit that.

If you write more, they're like, they'll probably cut it before the table read 'cause there's people that are like, they're more senior, and they have like, you know, five, six pieces in a week.

So you write a couple things.

You try to write to like your strengths.

You try to like put cast members in that you know always play well.

You know, like a cheat code someone told me was like, you know, if you have a thing that you really want, like throw Keenan like a fun role, throw the, you know, it's like just kind of you try to anchor in like.

- [Evan] Right.

- Guarantees that like.

- [Evan] Strategy.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like give, you know, give Bowen a funny, it's like you try to know how to position yourself to where it's like, okay, maybe they wanna make this.

'Cause it's like, if you're a first year person, they're like, you get kind of, they throw you a bone once every couple weeks where they go, okay, let's see, you know, we gotta show him.

We have to show him, hey, we have the new one.

- Years ago at this point, long before he was even, I think, the Weekend, I think he was not yet the Weekend Update guy Colin Jost was here, and he talked about getting something on the first week that he was.

- Yeah, yeah, I've heard this story from him.

- Right, yeah.

- He got one, thing on, and then I think he didn't get anything on for like six months.

- [Evan] Forever, right?

- He was like, no.

- Exactly right.

Yeah, I mean, it is that, it's gotta be so heartbreaking to try and try and try, struggle to get on the air.

Struggle to get one of your things on, even if you're not in it.

- Yeah.

- Right?

- Yeah, I think that's like, when you're in there, that's all you care about is like, you know, you're like, how do I feel week to week?

- [Evan] Right.

- 'Cause you can have a great week, and then the next week you're like, oh my God, I feel terrible.

I have two lines in the show, best case scenario.

- [Evan] Right.

- But I guess that's the positives and negatives of like not being there anymore.

You know, you have the freedom to be like, okay, I wanna make something, I can just go make it.

- [Evan] Right.

- Whereas you have to otherwise just kind of wait your turn in line and-- - Work within the institution.

- Yeah, exactly, which is like great.

And it's like that's such a fun way to do it.

And you have all the funding of it, and the studios and all that.

- Yeah.

- But then there's, the trade off is, you know, you don't get to do it as much.

- Do do you think the show is good?

I know that's a weird question, but you know, there was for a long time that whole-- - Do you care about your career going forward?

(audience laughing) - Choose your words.

- Do you wanna put that on the line for an Austin PBS crowd of people that mostly look like Willie Nelson?

(audience laughing) - But it's a good look though.

- It's a good look, and I'm glad.

- [Evan] It's a great look.

- We get it.

You guys took acid in the 70s.

I'm glad you did.

- The number of bandanas in the audience is very high.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Relatively speaking.

- The amount of banjos that people are going home to are-- - The reason, I bring this up because I'm old enough to remember, I probably assume that you are not old enough to remember that old idea of Saturday Night Dead, that there was a period of time with the show where everybody loved it, and then there was a period of time where people were like, eh, maybe this is not gonna last.

- [Emil] Sure.

- And like literally, there was a New York Magazine cover, I think with Chris Farley with a television on his head.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- And the headline was something to the effect of maybe actually "Saturday Night Dead."

- Yeah.

- Right.

- I think it's good.

It's like it's impossible what they're doing.

It's every week they're putting on a live comedy show.

It's crazy, so it's like.

- Right.

- And it, and with all the standards to go through, and the.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- You know, again, like the rules of cable.

It's like - In this world.

- [Emil] In this world, yeah.

- Yeah.

(Emil laughing) - And like, you know, the dramatized first night, the television, the, pardon me, the film of the.

- [Emil] Oh, oh, oh yeah, yeah.

- That was done, sort of captures the kind of craziness of the early thing.

I'm now actually getting ready to see this Lorne Michaels documentary that Morgan Neville has done that I'm hoping is gonna cast a little bit more of a light on how it is now.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- He interests me.

I have to admit.

I mean, we've already invoked his name once and like the heavens opened up.

- Yeah, yeah, careful.

Yeah, a book is gonna fall.

They're not even, they're not even real books.

Not even real books, right, exactly.

- Yeah.

- Secret.

It's secret.

- In Texas, they're illegal here.

(audience laughing) - All right, hey, hey.

- Hey, hey, hey, hey.

An applause break for that.

- Yeah.

- I'm pandering.

Gun control, am I right?

Applause.

- Applause.

- Sorry.

- He is really like very few people who are talked about his legends are actually legends.

- [Emil] Yeah, it's crazy.

- He's really a legend.

- Yeah, yeah, meeting him was crazy 'cause it's like, it's like meeting like an idea.

You're like, whoa.

You like have a physical form.

You're like a guy in a room.

- [Emil] Do you get along with him?

Do you like him?

- Yeah, yeah, he was cool.

He was really cool.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- And like I think we had a good vibe.

I think he liked me.

- Most of the people who talk about their time on the show when they look back have very good things to say.

- Yeah, I think you, everyone like, I think he, you know, yeah.

He has, he's dealing with a lot.

There's a lot of people telling him things in his ear.

So it's like, I think he.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- I think you have to know your relationship with him, and you kind of from afar kind of like, all right, you know?

- You think he's gonna retire?

That's always the speculation is that this is the last season.

Like he'll.

- Yeah.

- He'll announce that he's gonna retire.

- I don't know honestly.

- He's been doing it so long.

- I really don't know.

I mean, I think maybe I talked to him like four or five times.

- Yeah.

- And I was like, I think I could see you doing this forever.

I don't know.

- Yeah.

- Why give it up?

Just, you know?

- [Evan] I mean, it's the best job in the world, right?

- Yeah, yeah.

- [Evan] Yeah, you gotta think that, so you-- - Life is boring.

Life is really boring without a job.

- So you were one and, so you were one and done.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- Yeah, after one season, that was the end.

- Yeah.

- You described it as.

- The industry term is fired.

(audience laughing) - Well, I was being nice about the whole thing.

- But my dad refuses to say, my dad goes you were not fired.

You, they brought you in for the 50th.

Like I was like a spot.

- Like that was the plan.

- Yeah.

- Like I was like a hit man.

Like I was imported because or yeah.

They brought you in.

- So you described it as a gut punch to get the, to get the news.

- [Emil] Yeah, for sure.

- I took that, that sounded to me like you were telling the truth.

- Yeah, yeah, it was devastating.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- Yeah, I went through a breakup, and then the next day I got the call.

- [Evan] Literally, - Literally.

- Two breakups in two days.

- Literally two breakups in two days, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Went through the breakup, and I was like oh, I'll commit myself to my work.

Got the season starting soon.

- Exactly.

(audience laughing) Don't say that out loud.

- Gonna double down on work, gonna have a really good year.

- [Evan] Right.

- And then they're like, nevermind, learn how to meditate.

And I was like got it, noted.

- I said to you before we came out here, and I meant it that I thought the way you handled it was very classy.

- [Emil] Thanks.

- Very gracious.

Because not everybody who is in that situation has the maturity to be gracious.

And you seemed genuinely grateful.

You acknowledged that it was tough.

- For sure.

- You also seemed really grateful.

- Yeah, I mean there was a lot of drafts of that text that I wrote, and I'm glad that my family was like maybe take that line out.

- That one line out.

- For sure, totally.

- Yeah.

- But yeah, you definitely are, yeah, it's so, it's such a crazy feeling to deal with 'cause you are like, you know, I think I said it on, I tried to say it on stage 'cause I had shows that next weekend, and I was like just a shell of a person.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- And I was trying to talk about it, and I was just like I feel like I got to drive a Lamborghini for a year.

And then they took away the Lamborghini, and it's like I can't really be that mad.

- [Evan] No 'cause you got to do it.

- I got to drive a Lamborghini.

- [Evan] Again, you're in a small club.

- I'm in a small club.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- Yeah.

- All right, so born in Chicago.

- Yeah.

- Went to college in Bloomington, Indiana.

- Yeah.

- Indiana University.

Your family is Christian Arab.

You're Lebanese American.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- But you've described your family in your comedy, and I believe this is actually accurate.

- [Emil] Yeah, yeah.

- As Christian Arab.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- What's the distinction there?

Why do you, I mean I'm interested in that.

I know where this is going.

- Yeah.

- But talk about that.

- Yeah, I mean I think it's like, it's kind of a easier time with racism.

I think Arabs, you know, the stereotype of Arabs and then the Christian Arabs get to kind of be like, yeah, we're actually-- - You described Christian Arabs once as black dudes with anime backpacks.

- Yeah, kind of.

(audience laughing) Yeah.

- That cracked me up.

Still cracks me up.

- Yeah, it's like a black guy that golfs where you're like okay, sure.

You know, he's a little less, the white people go, all right, we know this guy more.

You know, it's more, yeah, it's weird.

I think just the Christian thing.

It's like probably just like an American thing where it's like, yeah, if you believe in Jesus, people just like are less racist to you.

- [Evan] Give you a break.

- Yeah, barely, but they are.

- [Evan] Right.

- But they're like, all right, you got there, not bad.

Like it helps everyone to be Catholic in this country, even though we're not even that Catholic.

Like we like Jesus, but like as like a logo.

We don't really follow.

- [Evan] Lowercase j.

- Yeah, we just kind of want you to like have a picture of him in your house.

So we go, okay, but don't follow the rules.

Don't be like a good guy, just-- - Your dad is an immigrant.

- Yeah.

- Yes, talk about him because he's also come up in your comedy, but also what you've said about him in your comedy is actually close to the reality of it.

- Yeah, I'd say so.

I think, you know, I think you lean in a little more to the cheekiness of it, but like yeah, he's a hilarious guy.

I love him.

He's so funny and interesting and smart.

Yeah, he's like my best friend, and I really look up to him as a person.

That's kind of a boring way to say that, sorry.

I don't know.

Yeah, I mean.

- What I mean is that he came to this country.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And then having come to this country as an immigrant.

- Yeah.

- As you've said in your, in your bit, he decided now nobody else gets to come.

- Yeah, well, he's just kind of like vaguely Republican, but he's like socially liberal.

Like he's like pro-choice.

Like he voted for Hillary when it was Hillary/Trump, which I was like really proud of.

I remember being like that's awesome.

And he was like, he's like, yeah.

He's like I can't, you know, he's like, I went in the booth, and I saw those two names, and I thought, I have daughters.

I can't vote for a man that speaks about women this way.

And I was like that's awesome, Dad.

I'm like so proud of you.

And then he was like, so I put my pen over Hillary's name, and I closed my eyes and I circled it.

And I was like you closed your eyes while you voted for a woman that's like undoing the deed, kind of.

It's like giving a homeless guy money but you like ball it up and like throw it.

It's like crazy.

- Yeah, he though has kind of, as he's as become assimilated to American culture over the time he's been here - [Emil] Yeah.

- He is kind of small c conservative.

His values have become a little bit more conservative.

- Yeah, well I think a lot of, I think a lot of immigrants do that 'cause they leave their country that is like a little lawless or a little just like, you know, I love Lebanon, but it is like the stoplights are suggestions and all that stuff.

It's like, and then they come here because they, that frustrates them.

So then they come here, and there's so much of the in order, stay in line.

You know what I mean?

And they, they go that's, they picked this.

So I think they do, you know, some of those values, I think especially as you get older probably are like more appealing, and the stability of that.

What, the idea that it could offer stability.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- A more conservative, you know, grounded thing is appealing to them.

- It appeals to him.

- Yeah.

- Why did you decide comedy was for you?

And when?

I know you did standup when you were in college.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- So I can at least date your time in standup back say 10 years.

You're 28 today.

- [Emil] Yeah, yeah.

- So back 10 years at least.

- Yeah.

- [Evan] But when did you think this is something I wanna do?

- I think, I mean, I was in school, I was always like uninterested a little bit or it was just, it was, yeah.

I couldn't really focus on it 'cause I was like, and it just didn't grab me.

And then I think just standup was, I dunno.

I think also I was like I'm like the youngest, and like a lot of my family sort of like, I have two older sisters and amongst cousins and kind of on the younger end too.

- Yeah.

- And so I think I remember standup was like a cool thing where it's like you kind of are forced to, like you have your time, it's allocated for you.

You don't have to kind of compete for a word in.

So I liked that, that you get, everyone just kind of has to like listen, and you're like here's this thing I made.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- And shut up and listen.

You know what I mean?

That's really like, that's it.

They're like not allowed to talk.

It's like the best.

So that was always, that was cool.

I remember liking that, and it just felt like an outlet.

I remember, I think I was just like, in college I had all these like feelings about things.

I didn't know what I felt about anything.

And it just had the, it was just this like, this thing.

- [Evan] It's an outlet.

- Yeah, it was an outlet, for sure.

- Yeah, and you mentioned some of the people on Saturday Night Live at the time who you admired?

But were there other people doing comedy and you thought, oh, I'd like to be like that person?

- Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of those guys are kind of canceled now for various crimes.

No, I'm kidding.

No, I mean, yeah, like I remember watching standup like on YouTube I'd watch like clips, and I'd be like this is like unbelievable.

Like I didn't even really know what it was, but I was like, just like, yeah.

Like watching it like sideways like in bed and just like belly laughing and being like, oh my God, I like.

- [Evan] If I could get to do this.

- Yeah, whatever this feeling, whatever I, whatever this is, I want to do that.

I wanna give that feeling to people.

- It occurs to me watching you over the, you're not really a political comedian.

Like everything is political these days.

Let's accept that.

- Yeah.

- But like, you know, and you've been an advocate out in the world for the Lebanese people.

You know, you've done some fundraising on behalf of causes back there.

But the reality is you're not a political comedian, but a lot of comedy today is political.

This is not new.

You know, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, right?

- Yeah.

- Many years ago.

But today it feels like it's a little bit more political, isn't it?

- Yeah, I think it feels silly to not address anything if there is just kind of an elephant in the room all the time.

- Yeah.

- And I think it is like, I don't know if you're getting up on stage, like everyone's attention is so coveted now too that it's like if you're like on stage with like a microphone, like you better say something.

- [Evan] Take your shot.

- Yeah, take a shot a little bit.

Or I don't know.

I think I also, I think there's also a pressure too, if you're from a part of the world or if you are like, you know, some sort of diverse thing that people go talk about it.

Like you know what I mean?

There's kinda this pressure to be like what's your perspective?

- Well if you don't talk about it, that's the news.

- Yeah, if you don't talk about it, you're like a sellout and kind of like a token and all this stuff.

And it's like you can't be uninformed if you're involved, yeah.

- Of course the inverse of this is today, whether this is correctly said or not, there is a stream of conservative comedy that has popped up, right?

- [Emil] Yeah.

- Shane Gillis, Bill Burr, Tony Hinchcliffe.

- Well I actually think that those guys are.

- The Joe Rogan-verse, you know.

- Sure, sure, sure.

I think Gillis and Burr though are actually, I don't, I don't think they're actually.

- You think of them as mischaracterized or categorized in that bucket.

- I think guys can latch onto their stuff and try to take a different meaning from it.

Whereas I think it is poking at those guys still.

I think it is this like I'm being the villain to show that this is the feeling and commenting on the feeling.

I don't know if that makes sense, but.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, I think it's, they're doing a different thing.

- Well, they kind of go back, they go back and forth.

- For sure.

They go back and forth, and they play the middle a little bit and stuff.

Which I think can be easily clipped up and heard and be like, oh, this is a bad guy, but, or whatever.

- Yeah.

- But, yeah, I think that spectrum has a lot of people on it, and I think some people are way further to one side than other, like, you know, or the intent is different.

- On the subject of comedy and politics.

I saw an interview this week with Dave Chappelle talking about the Riyadh Comedy Festival, - [Emil] Yeah.

- And it made me wanna actually ask you about this.

You know, there's a, this is obviously a very controversial thing within comedy.

Do you, if you're invited to go perform in Saudi Arabia, do you go or don't you?

David Cross was kind of the leader of the don't go.

- Yeah.

- Side, you know?

It's disgusting that people go, it's blood money that you're taking to get what, a fourth house, he said.

- Yeah.

- Chappelle said this week actually, he's like look, I was about to go on stage.

They gave me a list of things I couldn't talk about.

I took the list, and I went on stage and that was my act, was the list of things I couldn't talk about.

And he said, you know, for everybody else, like, you know, the government does business with them.

Netflix does business with them.

Hollywood does business with them.

He said, the minute that I do business with them, all of a sudden it's bad.

- [Email] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Right.

What do you think about this?

- Jesus, I think there was, I think it was maybe an overcorrection, and people were trying to, I think the stuff with the Middle East was very like, very hot, obviously.

Like the Israel Palestine stuff, I think kind of bled into the Riyadh thing.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- I think people were like trying to be like critical of Israel and then progressively try to also show equal criticism of Riyadh to be like see we're not anti-Semitic.

Like no one thought that's what was happening.

So I think they were trying to be like this government's bad too in an equal way.

And so, I don't know.

It was, yeah, it was an interesting, I'm shocked it blew up that much.

- Would you go?

- Would I go?

What's the number?

No, I'm kidding.

(audience laughing) No, I mean.

- By the way, that's the clip on Instagram.

after this is over.

(audience laughing) - What's the number?

- What's the number?

No, I mean, I don't know.

No, I don't think I, I didn't have to, I didn't have to to debate it morally.

So I don't, I don't know.

I mean, I only know now after seeing the outpouring of controversy.

- [Evan] Might color your opinion of it.

(cross talking) - Before that I probably would've gone and not thought twice.

I probably would've been like, yeah, Arabs.

- Pre-controversy.

- I would've thought like this is a easy show.

Like I do all these like Arab shows in the States, and I'm like, oh, okay.

I just talk about my dad, and they eat it up.

You know what I mean?

Okay, right, I'll go do those.

- [Evan] Might not be that different.

- Well, leave it in.

(audience laughing) No.

- All right, let me, in the last couple of minutes we have, I wanna ask you about comedy today.

- Yeah.

- And how things have changed over the 10 years.

So you're on tour right now?

- Yeah.

- You're in Austin here performing.

You're going to Seattle, New Orleans, Charlotte.

You're gonna be at the Netflix Is a Joke Festival in LA.

How many nights are you spending on the road as a standup?

- I'll do like a week, like a Thursday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then back in New York, Sunday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, you know, through the week.

Do sets in New York through the week.

- So you're performing almost nonstop.

- Yeah, yeah, on the on weeks.

And then sometimes I'll take weeks off and stuff, but then I'm prepping for.

- Do you mind working that?

That seems like a lot - It ebbs and flows.

I think sometimes you're a little cal, like, you know, too many sets, you get a little like robotic.

- [Evan] Yep.

- And stuff, and then you gotta be like all right, I'll take a couple nights.

You know, you gotta like live still and go like be out and get, you know, do things to like inspire anything.

You can't just do standup then when you just.

- Well, it gets stale.

- Yeah, yeah totally.

- After a while.

How are the clubs today?

- They're great.

- Different than they were 10 years ago when you started?

- They came back, I think.

They came back around.

I don't know.

I think there was the COVID hit, obviously, but then, I mean, they're still there.

The indie shows I think suffered.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- After it and are still kind of struggling to find their footing, but.

- [Evan] Right.

- The club shows I think are still there.

I think there's still a demand.

- And of course the streamers have given you another distribution platform, all of you in comedy.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- Right?

That wasn't there say 10 years ago.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- Now everyone seems to have a special on Netflix.

That's the, and you're about to do one in fact, right?

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- That's both the plus and the minus.

The plus is more distribution.

The minus is it feels like everybody has a special on Netflix.

And so there's a little bit of a glut.

- Sure.

- But probably a net positive, right?

- Yeah, I think so.

I think if you're just putting it out there.

If people can see it, that's like the best thing for it.

They can just go find it.

But then it is on you to like market it and go do things and get it out there and make sure people see it, I guess.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- Which is tough, but.

- Before we go, you just finished filming a part in a movie.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- With Amy Sedaris.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- This is directed by Molly Gordon, who is the actress in "The Bear," plays Jeremy Allen White's girlfriend and who has actually directed a couple of really good things.

- [Emil] Yeah.

- Say a word about that.

- It was awesome.

It was great.

Yeah, small role, but you'll see me in there.

I got a couple lines.

- [Evan] The film is called?

- It's called "Peaked."

- [Evan] "Peaked."

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know how much I can say about it.

Yeah, but it's super funny.

- [Evan] But the fact that you're in it is public, so we can talk about it.

- Yeah, yeah, that's true.

That's a good point, yeah.

The log line for it is exposed, so.

- Right.

- No, but it was lovely.

It was such a good experience.

- Yeah.

- Kinda the first time being on like a movie set.

Like for real.

It was really great.

And like the cast was lovely, everyone was super.

- [Evan] Good.

- Down to earth.

Yeah, it was a great time.

And I think it'll be really great.

- You know, my reaction when I saw that story in Deadline was I'm so glad you're working.

- Thanks, dude.

That's so sweet.

That's awesome, yeah.

- Well, I thought I'm really happy that kind of to come back around to the beginning of this conversation like one and done, but.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- [Evan] Right?

And that you're still out and making everybody laugh.

- Yeah, that's the goal, you know?

- I love that.

All right.

Emil Wakim, give him a big hand.

Thank you very much for being here.

(audience applauding) - Thanks, man.

- Appreciate it, man.

- Any time.

Yeah, yeah, it was great.

(audience applauding) (upbeat music) - [Evan] Visit our website at austinpbs.org/overheard to find invitations to interviews, Q&As with our audience and guests, and an archive of past episodes.

(upbeat music) - To talk about being like Lebanese specifically and then like the Christian Arabs, it's like there's so many sub sects that we now are finally giving time to get into, which is really cool.

And yeah, I think it's like helping like open that part of the world up to people in a way that's not like the news only, you know, it's in a positive way.

- [Announcer] Funding for "Overheard with Evan Smith" comes from HillCo Partners, a Texas government affairs consultancy, Claire and Carl Stuart, Christine and Philip Dial, Eller Group specializing in crisis management, litigation and public affairs communication.

EllerGroup.com.

Diane Land and Steve Adler.

And Karey and Chris Oddo.

(gentle music)