♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," THE IMPACT OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S MASS DEPORTATION EFFORTS ON U.S.

FOOD PRICES.

>>> ALSO TONIGHT, AN ECONOMIC ANALYSIS OF VOTER IDENTIFIED PRIORITIES.

>>> AND SOME BUILDINGS ON THE GROUNDS OF THE HISTORIC TOVREA CASTLE ARE GETTING A FACE LIFT.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

THE U.S.

LABOR DEPARTMENT IS REPORTING THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S MASS DEPORTATION EFFORTS COULD CAUSE AN UPTICK IN FOOD PRICES.

FOR MORE, WE WELCOME HITENDRA CHATURVEDI FROM ASU'S W.P.

CAREY SCHOOL OF BUSINESS, ALWAYS LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING YOU ON THE PROGRAM.

LOVE THESE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAVE.

THIS IS THE U.S.

LABOR DEPARTMENT.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHICH IS ALIGNED WITH A CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THINKING, EVEN THIS DEPARTMENT IS SAYING WATCH OUT FOR HIGHER FOOD PRICES.

WHAT SAY YOU?

>> SO LET ME PUT NUMBERS IN FRONT OF YOU, WHICH WILL MAKE IT EXTREMELY CLEAR.

40% OF OUR AG WORKER IS FOREIGN BORN.

OF THE 40%, ABOUT ANOTHER 40% IS UNWILLING OR UNABLE TO COME TO THE FORUM, SCARED, THEY DON'T WANT TO COME.

THAT'S ABOUT 16 OUT OF EVERY 100 WORKER UNWILLING TO COME TO THE FIELD.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN ALL OF THEM ARE UNDOCUMENTED OR ON H2A.

NOW WHAT DOES THAT TRANSLATE INTO PRODUCTION?

AGAIN, THE DEPARTMENT'S NUMBERS, 16% TRANSLATES TO ABOUT 7% REDUCTION IN PRODUCTION.

7%.

TED: YEAH.

>> 7% TRANSLATES INTO 10% FOOD PRICE HIKE.

WE'RE ALREADY SEEING ABOUT 4%, 5% FOOD PRICE HIKE PER YEAR, SO WE'RE ONLY AT THE MIDDLE OF THAT.

IT STILL NEEDS TO GO UP.

TED: ARE WE SEEING A LITTLE OF THAT ALREADY, OR A LOT OF THAT ALREADY?

OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS RAMPING UP, RAMPING UP WITH THIS PARTICULAR ACCELERATOR?

>> WE ARE ALREADY AT THE HALFWAY POINT.

WE ARE -- IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS TODAY, WE'RE SEEING PRICES INCREASE IN GROCERY BY ABOUT 0.4 TO 0.5% EVERY MONTH, WHICH MEANS WE ARE ALREADY TOUCHING ABOUT 5% A YEAR, AND WITH THIS SHORTAGE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 10%.

TED: SO FEWER AG WORKERS DUE TO THE IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN.

THIS IS A MAJOR FACTOR?

KIND OF A MAJOR FACTOR?

NOT MUCH OF A FACTOR?

>> IT IS A MAJOR FACTOR.

IT IS THE SCARE THAT WE HAVE WITH THE WORKERS WHO DON'T WANT TO GO WORK OVER THERE.

EVEN FOLKS WHO HAVE LEGITIMATE LEGAL VISAS ARE SCARED TO WORK.

TED: DEPARTMENT OF LABOR IN THIS REPORT SAID, THIS IS A QUOTE, WITHOUT SWIFT ACTION, AGRICULTURAL EMPLOYERS WILL BE UNABLE TO MAINTAIN OPERATIONS.

>> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

THE AGRICULTURE SECTOR IS ALREADY SEEING ABOUT 30% PRICE INCREASE IN TERMS OF HIRING SOME LABOR THAT IS NOT FOREIGN BORN WORKER, AND IT IS GOING TO GO UP.

TED: I WANT TO GET TO THAT IN A SECOND.

ONE LAST THING, THE REPORT SAID THE NATION'S FOOD SUPPLY COULD BE AT RISK.

I MEAN, THIS IS PRETTY STRONG STUFF HERE.

>> IF YOU ARE GOING TO LOOK AT 10% PRICE INCREASE EVERY YEAR, AND COULD POTENTIALLY GET WORSE, AND WE HAVE SOME TARIFFS ON IMPORT OF AGRICULTURAL FOOD ITEMS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HUGE SUPPLY CONSTRAINT.

TED: NOW YOU MENTIONED WORKERS.

THE REPORT SAYS THAT LEGAL RESIDENTS ARE NOT -- HERE'S A BIG SURPRISE -- LEGAL RESIDENTS AREN'T LIKELY TO TAKE THE DEMANDING FARM JOBS AND FILLED BY IMMIGRANT LABOR.

DEPARTMENT IS PUSHING TO A CHANGE TO THE H2A VISA PROGRAM.

DOES THAT PROGRAM NEED TO BE CHANGED TO GET MORE FOLKS HERE WHO AREN'T AFRAID TO HIT FIELDS?

>> I BELIEVE IT HAS TO BE A TWO-PRONGED STRATEGY.

ONE CLEAR MESSAGE HAS TO BE SENT OUT THAT FOLKS ON H2A VISA ARE NOT GOING TO BE THREATENED.

THEY ARE THE -- THE BABY IS THROWN OUT WITH THE BATHWATER.

THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS.

SO AT THIS MOMENT, THERE IS NO CLEAR MESSAGE, AND THE OTHER ONES WHO ARE UNDOCUMENTED, WHO ARE ABOUT 25% OF THE WORKFORCE ARE AUTOMATICALLY NOT COMING.

TED: YEAH, AND THEY WERE PAID AT CERTAIN RATES BETWEEN 4 AND 24% LESS THAN THOSE WITH VISA PROGRAMS AND THOSE THINGS.

AGAIN, THE DEPARTMENT IS RECOMMENDING THE CHANGE TO THE VISA PROGRAM MEANS FARMERS PAYING LESS FOR THE VISA WORKS BECAUSE THEY WERE PAYING LESS FOR THE UNDOCUMENTED FOLKS, AND THE UNDOCUMENTED FOLK AREN'T THERE.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

>> YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE LEGALLY DOCUMENTED WORKING OVER HERE.

YOU CANNOT PAY THAT LOW RATES.

IT IS NOT ONLY THE LOW RATES.

HOUSING WAS POOR.

SANITATION WAS POOR.

TRANSPORTATION WAS NOT PROVIDED.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S A SUSTAINABLE PRACTICE.

>> YOU MENTIONED HOUSING.

FARMERS COULD PAY EVEN LESS IF HOUSING WAS PROVIDED.

>> I HOPE THEY CAN PULL IT OFF.

IT'S GOING TO BE A HARD SELL.

TED: ALL RIGHT, YOU'RE SAYING PRICES INCREASING.

ARE THEY GOING TO SPIKE?

ARE GO UP STAIR STEPPING STUFF HERE?

>> I WORRY IF THEY DO NOT MAKE SOME FORM OF DECISIONS ON THIS ONE, THIS COULD BECOME A PERFECT STORM, WITH PRICES INCREASING, WITH SUPPLY CONSTRAINED, WITH IMPORT TARIFFS.

OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, TED, THE PRICE OF GROCERY HAS INCREASED BY 26%, AND WE'RE SEEING ANOTHER 10% OVER THE NEXT YEAR, AND THE NOMINAL WAGE HAS INCREASED BY ONLY 15%.

HAVE YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE USING BUY NOW, PAY LATER TO BUY GROCERIES.

TED: YEAH.

>> THAT'S A PERFECT STORM.

TED: LAST QUESTION.

YOU HAVE THE PRESIDENT'S EAR, THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT'S EAR, THE LABOR DEPARTMENT'S EAR, YOU HAVE THE EAR OF FARMERS, THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY, WHAT DO YOU TELL THEM?

>> I TELL THEM THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL PROBLEM.

THIS IS A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM.

POLICY AND LABOR ARE INTERTWINED, THEY ARE NOT SPRAY.

LET'S LOOK AT THIS AS A SUPPLY CHAIN SYSTEMIC PROBLEM AND FIND A SOLUTION TO IT.

TED: WE'LL QUICKLY, WHAT CHANGES IF YOU LOOK AT IT IN THAT DIRECTION?

>> IF YOU LOOK AT IT, THEN YOU MAKE SYSTEMIC CHANGES FROM THE LABOR TO WAREHOUSING, ALL THE WAY TO SUPPLY, ALL THE WAY TO TARIFF FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE AMERICAN CONSUMER.

TED: WOW.

A LOT OF CONNECTIONS THERE.

A LOT OF AGREEMENT, COOPERATION.

>> THAT'S THE REASON IT'S CALLED SUPPLY CHAIN.

TED: ALL RIGHT.

HITENDRA CHATURVEDI, W.P.

CAREY SCHOOL OF BUSINESS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> A PLEASURE.

.

TED: THE CENTER FOR THE FUTURE OF ARIZONA RECENTLY COMMISSIONED A REPORT THAT LOOKED AT WHAT IT WOULD MEAN TO ARIZONA'S ECONOMY IF THE STATE WOULD ACT ON PRIORITIES AND VOTERS AGREE ON ACROSS PARTY LINES.

THE REPORT IS CALLED UNLOCKING POTENTIAL, TURNING ARIZONA PRIORITIES INTO ECONOMIC GAINS.

JOINING US IS SYBIL FRANCIS, AND WE ALSO WELCOME ECONOMIST JIM ROUNDS FROM THE ROUNDS CONSULTING GROUP.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU BOTH HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

SYBIL, START WITH YOU, WHAT IS THIS REPORT ALL ABOUT?

WHY WAS IT COMMISSIONED?

WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING FOR?

>> SO TED, I'VE BEEN ON YOUR SHOW BEFORE TO TALK ABOUT OUR "GALLUP" SURVEY AND ARIZONA VOTERS AGENDA AND WHAT WE TRY TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT ARIZONANS.

AS YOU RECALL, WE DISCOVER ARIZONANS AGREE MUCH MORE THAN WE DISAGREE ON IMPORTANT ISSUES, LIKE EDUCATION, JOBS, HEALTH CARE, THE ENVIRONMENT AND OTHERS.

WE FOUND OUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, WHAT IMPACT WOULD THERE BE ON FAMILIES AND THE STATE'S ECONOMY IF WE ACHIEVE THE OUTCOMES THAT ARIZONAANS SAY THEY CARE ABOUT.

TED: QUICKLY, THE PRIORITIES ARE DETERMINED BY THE REPORTS WE TALKED ABOUT OVER THE YEARS.

THESE ARE BASICALLY SURVEYS?

>> YES, WE'VE DONE PUBLIC OPINION SURVEY RESEARCH OVER 15 YEARS, WE HAVE A REALLY, REALLY DEEP BENCH OF DATA THAT SHOWS WHAT ARIZONANS ACROSS OUR STATE, ACROSS THE POLITICAL LINES AND RURAL AND URBAN AREAS, WE HAVE A VERY, VERY GOOD HANDLE ON WHAT ARIZONANS CARE ABOUT.

WE THOUGHT ABOUT WHY DON'T WE TAKE THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP, IF WE KNOW WHAT ARIZONANS CARE ABOUT, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE ACHIEVE THE OUTCOMES THEY WANT?

TED: HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT FIGURING OUT THE X'S AND THE O'S.

>> GOES BACK TO OUR ANALYSES THAT WE BRING UP WHEN WE VISIT, IS IT GOING TO COST THE TAXPAYER MORE OR LESS THAN THE IMPLEMENTATION VERSUS WHAT THEY GAIN FROM ECONOMIC ACTIVITY?

YOU LOOK AT HOUSING.

IF WE GOT EVERYBODY DOWN TO 30% OF INCOME SPENT ON HOUSING, WE'D HAVE 125,000 JOBS CREATED.

EXTRA TAX REVENUE AND EXTRA $84 PER YEAR PER HOUSEHOLD.

CAN WE SPEND LESS THAN THAT TO GET THE PERCENTAGE DOWN?

I WOULD SAY YES, IT WOULD COME UP WITH CLEVER IDEAS.

WE TRIED TO DO THE SAME THING ACROSS THE SPECTRUM, IT SHOWS YOU CAN PUT MATH BEHIND WHAT THE VOTERS WANT TO SEE, AND I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST A FASCINATING EXERCISE.

THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE EXERCISES OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.

TED: INTERESTING, YOU GOT THE MATH RIGHT THERE BUT THE RESULTS STABILIZE COMMUNITIES, THEY PRESERVE RESOURCES, CORRECT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IF YOU LOOK AT -- FOR EXAMPLE, WE LOOKED AT CHILD CARE, PEOPLE HAVE TROUBLE FINDING AVAILABLE CHILD CARE OR IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE, AND WE THINK WE OFTEN THINK OF THAT AS A PROBLEM OF FAMILIES.

IF WE TAKE CARE OF THAT ISSUE, WE'RE TRYING TO HELP FAMILIES.

IT'S LIKE CONSIDERED A HANDOUT.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, AND WE KNOW FROM OUR OWN DATA, IF CHILD CARE IS TOO EXPENSIVE OR NOT AVAILABLE, PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING BACK TO WORK OR MISSING WORK OR NOT GOING BACK TO SCHOOL, SO THEY'RE NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE ECONOMY.

SO, OF COURSE, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO STAY HOME WITH THEIR CHILDREN, THAT'S TOTALLY GREAT.

THEY SHOULD HAVE THE CHOICE.

IF THEY MAKE THAT CHOICE, IF THEY DON'T PAY SO MUCH FOR CHILD CARE, THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING TO A SUCCESSFUL ECONOMY.

TED: CONTRIBUTING TO AN ECONOMY.

ALSO CONTRIBUTING TO EMPLOYERS WHO NEED THE STABILITY, WHO NEED THE WORKFORCE?

>> YES, THEY CAN POTENTIALLY BE PARTNERS, TOO.

RIGHT NOW, IF WE GOT EVERYTHING BACK INTO EQUILIBRIUM BETWEEN SUPPLY AND DEMAND, WE'D ADD AN EXTRA $5 BILLION TO THE STATE'S ECONOMY.

WE'D HAVE MORE PEOPLE WORKING, MAKING MORE MONEY, PAYING TAX REVENUES.

WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH CLEVER WAYS, DEPENDING ON WHERE WE ARE IN THE BUSINESS CYCLE OF IMPLEMENTING THE STUFF.

ON SO MANY OF THE PROJECTS, YOU CAN HAVE A POSITIVE RETURN ON INVESTMENT FOR THE TAXPAYER WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR.

THERE'S LONGER TERM THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT WITH TRANSPORTATION, LOOK AT BENEFITS OVER A COUPLE OF DECADES, BUT THESE PROGRAMS CAN BE IMPLEMENTED THIS COMING YEAR AND YIELD A POSITIVE RETURN THE NEXT.

>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT TRANSPORTATION AND INVESTING IN TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE.

FOR EVERY $1 INVESTED YOU GOT 1.60, $3.70 RETURNED.

>> TRANSPORTATION IS ONE OF THOSE FOUNDATIONAL ITEMS.

IN THE PAST WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT HOW DO WE IMPROVE THE ECONOMY?

IT'S TAX CODE AND WENT TO REGULATORY REFORM.

NOW WE'RE FINE-TUNING THE VEHICLE INSTEAD OF BUILDING IT AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW CAN WE MAKE THE REST OF THE ECONOMY MORE EFFICIENT, AND THE R.O.I.

ON THE PROJECTS ARE HIGHER THAN THE DOZENS OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENTS WE WORKED ON OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES.

INCREDIBLE.

TED: SYBIL, THIS IS SOMETHING TALKING ABOUT HOUSEHOLDS, IT SAVES HOUSEHOLDS MONEY REGARDING TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE POTHOLES, LATE TO WORK, MISSING WORK.

IF YOU'RE A SMALL BUSINESS, THE PROBLEMS OF TRANSPORTATION AROUND BAD ROADS.

THERE'S SO MANY EXTRA FUEL COSTS FOR POOR INFRASTRUCTURE.

THERE'S SO MANY WAYS YOU ARE SAVING.

TED: EVERYTHING WE TALKED ABOUT SO FAR.

THESE ARE THINGS YOUR SURVEYS HAVE SHOWN THAT THERE'S A CONSENSUS OUT THERE.

THESE AREN'T WILD EYED IDEAS ON EITHER END OF THE SPECTRUM, WHAT ARIZONANS SAY THEY WANT.

DO THEY WANT IT SYBIL OR ARE THEY SAYING THEY WANT IT.

>> THEY REALLY WANT IT.

WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS OVER 15 YEARS.

IT'S CLEAR ARIZONANS ARE PRACTICALLY MINDED.

THEY'RE NOT ASKING FOR THE MOON, THEY'RE ASKING FOR THINGS THAT WILL MAKE THEIR LIVES WORK BETTER, AND IT ALSO HAPPENS TO BE THAT MAKING THEIR LIVES WORK BETTER WILL HELP THE STATE'S ECONOMY WORK BETTER.

TED: WHY HASN'T THAT MESSAGE GOT ACROSS TO LEADERS WHO HAVE A ROLE IN MAKING DECISIONS TO IMPACT SOME OF THESE THINGS?

>> WELL, WE STARTED THE R.O.I.

DISCUSSION AT THE CAPITOL THE LAST HANDFUL OF YEARS.

IT SHOULD BE USED MORE ROBUSTLY, MORE OFTEN IN MAKING THE DECISIONS.

IF WE DO THESE TYPES OF ANALYSES ON MEASURES OF PUBLIC POLICY, IT MIGHT NOT BE, WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE CHILD CARE OR CHILD CARE, IT MIGHT BE WE WANT EFFICIENT CHILD CARE AT THESE COSTS COMPARED TO SOMETHING ELSE.

WE ALSO WANT MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT THE BALANCE.

AND DOING MORE MATH IS BETTER THAN DOING LESS MATH WHEN YOU ARE DOING PUBLIC POLICY, AND HISTORICALLY WE'VE NOT DONE ENOUGH.

TED: PLEASE.

>> EASY TO SEE HOW IF YOU'RE AN ELECTED LEADER, YOU HAVE THE PRESSURES, BEING RE-ELECTED EVERY TWO OR FOUR YEARS, YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THE SHORT TERM, WHAT ARE THE SHORT-TERM COSTS AND IT'S MUCH HARDER TO LOOK AT LONGER TERM RETURNS, SO WHAT WE SEE OURSELVES DOING IS TRYING TO BE OF SERVICE AND SHOW, LOOK AT WHAT THESE POSITIVE OUTCOMES COULD BE IF YOU ACT ON THESE.

TED: BUT IT'S ALSO SO MUCH EASIER FOR THE ELECTORATE TO LOOK AT THINGS IDEOLOGICALLY AS OPPOSED TO PRAGMATCALLY.

HOW CAN YOU BRIDGE THAT?

WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT THAT?

>> THE CENTER OF OUR MISSION, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE I SEE US PLAYING WHICH IS GETTING A HANDLE ON WHAT IT IS ARIZONANS CARE ABOUT.

WHAT OUR SHARED PUBLIC VALUES ARE.

WHAT THE THINGS WE HAVE IN COMMON, AND THERE'S HUGE AREAS OF COMMON INTEREST, AND UNFORTUNATELY BECAUSE OF THE PARTISAN POLITICS AND POLITICS OF DIVISION, WE HEAR MUCH MORE FROM THE EXTREMES IDEOLOGICALLY, WE'RE NOT HEARING FROM THE PRACTICAL PEOPLE WHO WANT THINGS TO MAKE THEIR LIVES MORE SUCCESSFUL.

TED: LAST QUESTION, JIM, YOU SAID THIS WAS A REWARDING THING TO DO, ONE OF THE MOST REWARDING YOU HAVE DONE.

ANYTHING SURPRISE YOU LIKE WHOA?

>> IN THE PAST, I HATE TO ADMIT IT, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE PUBLIC BEING SO INVOLVED IN MAKING LEGISLATION, AND THE INITIATIVES.

I THOUGHT THERE'S NO WAY THEY CAN BE FULLY INFORMED.

THE SURVEYS, ARE THEY ACCURATELY DONE?

WHAT I FOUND IS THAT THEY ARE, ESPECIALLY BY THIS GROUP, AND THE VOTERS DO SEEM TO HAVE A HANDLE ON THE BIGGER PICTURE ITEMS, AND IN SOME CASES THEY'RE SPLIT, BUT THEY FOCUS ON THE ONES WHERE THERE'S A LITTLE MORE CONSENSUS SO WE KNOW WHAT THEY WANT.

LIKE WHEN WE USED TO DO THE ANALYSIS FOR THE UNIVERSITIES AND DO AN R.O.I.

ON THE BUDGET REQUEST, NOT EVERY BUDGET HAD A POSITIVE R.O.I.

BUT IT HELPED US REDIRECT THE MONEY TO THE RIGHT PLACES.

THESE ARE THE NEXT STEPS OF OUR EVOLUTION, IF WE KEEP DOING THIS, WE'RE GOING TO BE IN GREAT SHAPE DOING THIS IN THE NEXT SLOWDOWN OF THE ECONOMY.

TED: AS LONG AS PEOPLE FOLLOW THE LEADERS' LEAD, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

TED: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ABSOLUTELY.

.

TED: TOVREA CASTLE IS ICONIC PHOENIX LANDMARK HARD TO MISS WHEN TRAVELING THROUGH EASTERN PARTS OF THE CITY.

A COUPLE OF LESSER KNOWN BUILDINGS ASSOCIATED WITH THE CASTLE HAVE BEEN RENOVATED.

WE WELCOME TAMERA ZIVIC, PRESIDENT OF THE TOVREA-CARRARO SOCIETY.

WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

TED: WHERE IS TOVREA CASTLE?

>> OVER NEAR THE ZOO, ON 50th STREET AND VAN BUREN.

IT WAS BY ITSELF FOR MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS.

TED: AND SITS ON 40 SOME ODD ACRES.

>> STARTED OUT ON 460.

TED: WOW.

IT WAS BUILT IN 1941?

>> A HOME INSTEAD AREA ORIGINALLY.

THEY PASSED AWAY AND SOLD IT TO MR.

CARRARO.

THE IDEA HE HAD WAS TO BUILD A BEAUTIES HOTEL AND SELL THE REST OF THE ACREAGE FOR HOME SITES.

>> THAT WAS GOING TO BE A HOTEL AND THE SURROUNDING AREA WAS GOING TO BE HOME SITES OR JUST A RESORT?

>> HOME SITES.

YOU WOULD PURCHASE YOUR HOUSE AND BE ABLE TO HAVE THE CASTLE THERE.

TED: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANS?

>> WELL, WE HAD A DEPRESSION IN 1929.

HE FINISHED THE CASTLE AND HAD NOBODY TAKEN IT.

NOBODY WAS GOING ANYWHERE.

TED: SO AND FOR THE INTERVENING YEARS UNTIL 70s, 80s, IT SEEMED LIKE IT SAT THERE?

>> WELL, HE SOLD IT, ACTUALLY TO THE TOVREAS TO RAN THE TOVREA PACKING COMPANY THAT BECAME CUDAHY, THEY WANTED THAT FOR THEIR HOME, THEY LIVED FURTHER AWAY.

THEY BOUGHT 406 THE ACRES THAT I HAVE NOW AND MADE IT EASY TO GET TO AND FROM WORK.

THEY OWNED IT UNTIL 1969 WHEN DELL PASSED AWAY AND CONTINUED IN PHOENIX.

TED: NOW THIS LOOKS MUCH NICER NOW THAN RECENT YEARS, AND NOW APPARENTLY, A CARETAKER HOME AND A COTTAGE.

TALK ABOUT THE CARETAKER HOME FIRST, WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> THEY'VE BEEN RECREATED BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL BUILDINGS, THERE ARE SEVEN OUTBUILDINGS TAKEN OUT BY MONSOONS AND MICROBURSTS.

SO CARRARO CABIN IS WHERE LEO AND ALESIA LIVED WHEN THEY WERE BUILDING THE CASTLE.

TED: WE HAVE A SHOT ON CAMERA.

THERE IT IS.

>> THAT'S THE ORIGINAL -- NO, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THERE IS THE CARETAKER'S HOUSE.

>> THAT'S THE CARETAKER'S HOUSE.

>> YES.

TED: THAT IS THE CAST FEEL?

THE HOMESTEADER'S HOUSE.

THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE MOST RECENTLY BEFORE THE MICROBURST HIT IT.

HE USED IT AS A PLACE FOR WORKERS TO LIVE AND THE TOVREAS HAD STAFF LIVING THERE.

TED: GOOD LUCK TO THE STAFF.

THIS HAS NOT NECESSARILY BEEN -- LOOK AT THIS.

THIS IS THE NEW VERSION?

>> THIS IS THE NEW.

IT'S THE SAME FOOTPRINT.

WE HAD TERRIFIC ARCHITECTS WHO WENT THROUGH ALL OF THE RUBBLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE, AND ORIGINALLY IT WAS PAINTED THE SAME COLORS AS THE CASTLE.

TED: WOW, WE HAVE THE COTTAGE.

I WANT TO LOOK AT THE COTTAGE BECAUSE THAT WAS RENOVATED, BUT IN THE SENSE OF KIND OF OUTWARDLY NOT SO MUCH INSIDE, CORRECT?

>> RIGHT.

ALL OF THEM ARE CONCRETE INSIDE.

TED: OH, MY GOODNESS, THIS IS WHATCOTTAGE LOOKED LIKE BEFORE.

>> IT HAD A GREAT VIEW OF THE CASTLE.

TED: AND THIS WAS RENOVATED.

WHAT WAS THIS USED FOR?

>> THIS WAS THE 700 FOOT HOME THAT LEO AND ALESSIO CARRARO LIVED IN WHILE THEY WERE BUILDING THE CASTLE.

TED: THIS IS THE NEW VERSION?

>> YEP.

TED: ISN'T THAT SOMETHING?

>> EVERYTHING HAS A METAL ROOF.

THAT'S HOW HE MADE HIS MONEY IS SHEET METAL.

TED: A LITTLE NOISY IN THE RAIN.

IS THIS PART OF THE ENTIRE GROUNDS NOW THAT CAN BE RENTED OUT?

PEOPLE CAN USE THE TOVREA CASTLE CAN BOOK THIS OUT FOR EVENTS AND THINGS, RIGHT?

>> YOU CAN'T GO INTO THE CASTLE FOR THE EVENT ITSELF BUT YOU CAN TOUR IT, AND THESE ARE NOT OCCUPIABLE YET, BUT WE HOPE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

BUT THEY ARE ON THE TOUR, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT A PICTURE, YOU CAN SEE WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE.

TED: IF YOU WANT TO GO ON THE TOUR OR BOOK THE PLACE OR THE GROUNDS FOR AN EVENT, WHERE DO YOU GO?

>> TOVREA CASTLE TOURS.COM.

TED: AND THE TOVREA-CARRARO SOCIETY, TAMARA, THAT'S YOUR GROUP, DESIGNED THAT THING?

>> YEP, DESIGNED IT, GROUND UP.

DID A LOT OF BLASTING.

TED: SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF FUN RESTORING THE BUILDINGS.

THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR STORY.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.