♪ COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

TED: IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

A LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING CONGRESSMAN ANDY BIGGS ANNOUNCING INTEREST IN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, AND JOINING US TONIGHT LAURIE ROBERTS FROM "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" AND AZCENTRAL.COM.

JIM SMALL OF THE "ARIZONA MIRROR" AND HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

LAURIE, ANDY BIGGS FILED A FORMAL STATEMENT, INTERESTED IN RUNG FOR GOVERNOR.

>> HE IS INTERESTED IN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

HE'S BEEN INTERESTED IN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR FOR A LONG TIME.

PUT IN A STATEMENT OF INTEREST AND NOBODY EXPRESSED INTEREST IN RUNNING FOR HIS SEAT.

I THINK THIS IS A COORDINATED THING.

HE'S A CLOSE ALLY WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP BUT TRUMP LAST MONTH INDICATED HE WOULD BE SUPPORTING KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON IF SHE RUNS.

THIS SETS UP A CONUNDRUM FOR THE PRESIDENT AND YET ANOTHER FIGHT BETWEEN THE TRADITIONAL REPUBLICANS AND THE MAGA REPUBLICANS, LEADING INTO NEXT YEAR'S ELECTION.

TED: JIM, WOULD HE HAVE MADE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT WITHOUT ASSURANCE FROM THE TRUMP CAMP THAT, YEAH, WE'LL BE THERE FOR YOU?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT FOLKS ARE WAITING TO SEE IS GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE CERTAINLY THE TIMING COMING A MONTH OR SO AFTER KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON ANNOUNCED THAT SHE HAD TRUMP'S BACKING, IF, AND I THINK WHETHER SHE DECIDES TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR AGAIN.

YOU KNOW, SEEMS LIKE IT WAS GOING TO MAYBE CLEAR THE FIELD AND SUCK SOME OF THE AIR OUT OF IT, OR IF THERE IS A CHALLENGE, A CHALLENGE FROM SOMEONE WHO IS OPENLY NOT ON TEAM TRUMP.

ANDY BIGGS IS OBVIOUSLY REALLY, REALLY ENTITLED TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS AND CERTAINLY I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK ANYONE WOULD SAY ANYTHING BUT A STRONG ALLY OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT SHAKES OUT, IF ANY OR BOTH END UP RUNNING.

>> WE HAVE TRUMP ENDORSED TWO PEOPLE FOR PRIOR CONGRESSIONAL SEATS.

THE OTHER PIECE OF IT IS, YOU'RE RIGHT, ANDY BIGGS IS CLOSER TO TRUMP CERTAINLY THAN KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON, ACCUSED OF BEING JUST RHINO, REPUBLICAN NAME ONLY, ET CETERA, BUT THE QUESTION FOR THE REPUBLICANS BECOMES NOT JUST FOR THE PRESIDENT BUT TO DO THEY WANT TO WIN A RACE?

IN SOME WAYS ANDY BIGGS COULD BECOME KARI LAKE, WITHOUT THE PERSONALITY.

NOTHING PERSONAL, BUT HE COULD WIN A PRIMARY VERY EASILY.

LOOK, THE DEMOCRATS WOULD LOVE TO HAVE ANDY BIGGS UP AGAINST THE INCUMBENT GOVERNOR.

TED: I WAS GOING TO SAY, DEMOCRATS ARE LOOKING AT KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON AND ANDY BIGGS, I WOULD IMAGINE THEY WERE AFRAID OF ROBSON?

>> VERY AFRAID.

SHE'S WEALTHY, A FUND-RAISER, SHE'S GOT DEEP, DEEP POCKETS, SHE CAN GAIN THE SUPPORT OF INDEPENDENTS AND MODERATES QUITE EASILY, WHEREAS ANDY BIGGS, I DON'T KNOW WITH HIS RECORD, HOW HE DOES ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT KARI LAKE DID, WHICH IS WIN A PRIMARY AND LOSE AN ELECTION.

HOW MANY MORE TIMES IS THIS PARTY GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS BEFORE THEY LEARN?

THEY'LL SAY DONALD TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP, HE WON AT ARIZONA SO IT'S ALL DIFFERENT NOW.

AS HIGH GROUND POLLSTER TOLD ME TRUMP IS A UNICORN, EVERYONE ELSE IS PART OF THE HAT.

TED: THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE LINE FOR THE LAST CAMPAIGN.

DATA ORBITAL SAID BIGGS HAD 32, KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON 12.

KIMBERLY YEE AT 7.

VERY EARLY AND DATA ORBITAL POLL AND WE'LL FIGURE OUT MORE OF THOSE AS THEY COME ALONG.

WOULD THOSE THREE, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WAITING IN THE WINGS TO COME SWOOPING DOWN?

>> YES, THERE IS.

TED: WHO?

>> I CAN'T SAY.

TED: WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN'T SAY?

>> THEY DON'T HAVE IT ON THE RECORD.

THERE IS A HIGH-PROFILE REPUBLICAN LOOKING SERIOUSLY AT THE RACE.

ANDY BIGGS BEING IN, MAY KEEP THE PERSON OUT, BUT I DON'T THINK THE RACE IS SHAPED UP YET AT ALL.

>> I THINK POSSIBLY CHARLIE KIRK, ALTHOUGH CHARLIE IS THE HEAD OF TURNING POINT USA.

I THINK HE LIKES BEING THE POWER BEHIND IT.

THAT'S PART OF THE FIGHT WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RIGHT NOW, IN TERMS OF BUILDING A SHIP BETWEEN GINA SABODA TRYING TO MAINTAIN HER LEADERSHIP.

HE THINKS I COULD DO THAT JOB, AND SO, AND AGAIN, THE MORE PEOPLE YOU PUT IN, WHETHER IT'S -- WHO LAURIE IS THINKING ABOUT IS CHARLIE.

REMEMBER, YOU GET FIVE PEOPLE IN THE RACE, SOMEBODY WITH 23% GET THE NOMINATION.

TED: YOU MIGHT GET SOMEONE WITH 23% GETTING THE REPUBLICAN SIDE AND DOING NOTHING AS FAR AS THE GENERAL.

CHARLIE KIRK AGAINST A DEMOCRATIC KATIE HOBBS OR ANY OF THE DEMOCRATS?

>> IN 2022, THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT WANT TO FACE KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON FOR ALL THE REASONS LAURIE MENTIONED, AND THEY WORKED HARD.

THEY CAMPAIGNED ACTIVELY OPENLY FOR KARI LAKE TO GET HER THROUGH THE PRIMARY, AND, YOU KNOW, THEY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED, AND OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE A KARI LAKE ON THE BALLOT THIS TIME, AND SO FOR DEMOCRATS, I THINK THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE HOPING THAT THEY GET THE MOST EXTREME OR THE MOST UNGENERAL ELECTION FRIENDLY CANDIDATE SOMEONE AS FAR TO THE RIGHT AS POSSIBLE ON THE BALLOT AGAINST KATIE HOBBS BECAUSE THAT GIVES HER THE BEST FIGHTING CHANCE TO GET RE-ELECTED.

>> I DON'T SEE, IF YOU ARE WATCHING THIS LEADERSHIP FIGHT FOR THE WEEKEND WHERE THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS GOING TO ELECT THE CHAIRMAN FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS, AND YOU GOT GINA SWOBODA WHO PUT THE PARTY BACK IN THE BLACK, DELIVERED ELECTORALLY IN A BIGTIME WAY AND THE MAGA CROWD CAN'T STAND HER AND HAVE SOMEONE RUNNING AGAINST HER.

YOU THINK SHE WOULD RUN BY ACCLAMATION GIVEN THE LAST ELECTION AND THE REPUBLICAN CHAIRMAN.

SOMEBODY LIKE ANDY BIGGS, IF HE'S IN THE RACE, HE WILL GET THE NOMINATION.

>> POINT OUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH GINA SWOBODA, CORY MAGAR, THE ONLY REPUBLICAN WHO MANAGED TO LOSE AN ELECTION THIS YEAR, NO BACKGROUND, NO FUND-RAISING EXPERIENCE, BUT I THINK THE PARTY IS GOING TO TEAR ITSELF APART.

TED: WITH THAT IN MIND, DO YOU WATCH EXTRA CLOSELY WHAT HAPPENS THIS WEEKEND TO SEE WHERE THE PARTY IS STANDING AND WHERE A BIGGS VERSUS KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON OR KIMBERLY YEE, ANYONE -- DO YOU READ THE TEA LEAVES FROM WHAT HAPPENS THIS WEEKEND?

>> YES, FOR ONE THING I MENTION, DONALD TRUMP ENDORSED GINA SWOBODA, AND THE TURNING POINT FOLKS INVOLVED WITH DONALD TRUMP HAVE ENDORSED CORY MAGAR.

YOU ARE TEARING THE PARTY UP AND DEMOCRATS ARE SITTING BACK.

POPPING THEIR POPCORN AND ENJOYING THE HECK OUT OF THIS.

TED: ALL RIGHT, JIM, BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP SUIT, WE SAW ARIZONA JOINING WASHINGTON, OREGON AND ILLINOIS, AND THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE TO GET A TEMPORARY BLOCK HERE, KRIS MAYES PART OF IT.

TALK TO US ABOUT IT.

WE COVERED IT DURING THE WEEK, IT'S REALLY A CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE AND AS CONGRESSMAN BIGGS SAID DURING A PRESS CONFERENCE BACK IN WASHINGTON, LOTS OF FOLKS WANT QUOTE, UNQUOTE CLARITY ON THIS ASPECT OF THE 14th AMENDMENT.

>> WELL, THERE IS -- SUPREME COURT CLARITY.

SUPREME COURT ISSUED A RULING ON THIS BACK IN 1898.

ON THIS ISSUE OF BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP AND WHO IT APPLIES TO, AND DOES IT APPLY TO THE CHILDREN OF IMMIGRANTS?

THE SUPREME COURT SAID YES, IT DOES.

SO THAT HAS BEEN SETTLED LAW AND SETTLED CONSTITUTIONAL UNDERSTANDING IN AMERICA FOR 125 YEARS NOW, BUT THE IDEA IS THAT TRUMP ISSUED THIS EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT BASICALLY SAYS, OH, NEVER MIND ALL OF THAT.

THE WORDS IN THE 14th AMENDMENT, THE WORDS IN THE SUPREME COURT RULING, WE'RE GOING TO DECLARE THAT NO LONGER DOES CITIZENSHIP CONVEY BASED ON BEING BORN IN AMERICA REGARDLESS WHO YOUR PARENTS ARE, IF YOUR PARENTS DON'T MEET CERTAIN QUALIFICATIONS, AFTER FEBRUARY 19, YOU WILL NO LONGER BE A CITIZEN.

THEY WENT TO COURT.

AND THE JUDGE HELD A REALLY QUICK HEARING, TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER.

SAID THAT THIS IS BASICALLY CASTIGATING THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SAYING THIS IS BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND QUESTIONED WHY ANYONE WHO PASSED THE BAR EXAM WOULD STAND IN FRONT OF HIM AND MAKE THE ARGUMENTS AND A LOT OF EXPECTATIONS IT'S GOING TO TURN INTO A PERMANENT ENJOYMENT THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.

>> COUPLE OF THINGS TO REMEMBER HERE.

THE CASE THAT JIM WAS TALKING ABOUT WHICH INVOLVED A CHINESE PERSON BORN HERE, IMMIGRANT PARENTS, THE PARENTS WERE HERE LEGALLY, AND THAT WAS THE POINT THE SUPREME COURT MADE IN 1898 IN THIS CASE.

WHAT TRUMP IS SAYING, WHAT SOME OF THE PROPONENTS ARE SAYING, THIS IS NEVER MEANT TO APPLY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VOLUNTARILY MADE THEMSELVES SUBJECT TO THE CONTROL OF THE UNITED STATES.

THAT'S NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO IS THE SAME THING THAT'S HAPPENED WITH OTHER CASES, A WHOLE NEW SUPREME COURT NOW.

WILL THE SUPREME COURT GET RID OF A PRECEDENT?

YOU REMEMBER ROE V. WADE, RIGHT?

TED: YEAH, AND AGAIN, THE ASPECT AS WE DISCUSSED IT THIS WEEK ON THE SHOW WITH A COUPLE OF LEGAL EXPERTS, IT'S WHO THE PARENTS MIGHT HAVE ALLEGIANCE TO, WHICH IS A REALLY STICKING POINT HERE, AND IF YOU ARE HERE UNDOCUMENTED, YOUR ALLEGIANCE MAY NOT BE TO THE UNITED STATES.

THAT IS WHAT I'M HEARING FROM THOSE WHO AGREE WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ON THIS.

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY.

PEOPLE HERE ILLEGALLY CAN SERVE IN THE MILITARY, CAN'T THEY?

>> I THINK THERE IS A PROVISION, THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO SERVED IN THE MILITARY.

>> WHERE IS THEIR ALLEGIANCE TO?

THE LAW IS INTENDED TO COVER FOREIGN DIPLOMATS.

THE CHILD IS OBVIOUSLY A CITIZEN.

TED: FOREIGN INVADING ARMY.

>> SAME WAY.

TO ME I LOOK AT THIS AND WONDER I JUST KEEP THINKING BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

LET'S SAY HE PREVAILS IN THIS AND WE HAVE A GENERATION OF CHILDREN WHO ARE BORN HERE, BUT ARE NOT FROM HERE AND HAVE NO STAKE HERE, AND YOU MULTIPLY THAT BY THEIR CHILDREN AND CHILDREN'S CHILDREN AND THEIR CHILDREN'S CHILDREN AND WE GO OUT 20, 40, 60 YEARS AND WE HAVE THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY WHO HAVE NO STAKE IN THE COUNTRY, THE AMERICAN DREAM AND YET THEY WERE BORN HERE.

WHAT'S THIS COUNTRY GOING TO LOOK LIKE FOR THEM AND THE REST OF US WHEN THEY GET MAD ABOUT IT.

TED: JIM?

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT WE'VE THROWN AROUND THE PHRASE ALLEGIANCE TO.

THAT'S NOT THE WORDS OF THE 14th AMENDMENT.

THEY'RE SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION OF THE UNITED STATES.

WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN YOU FEEL YOUR ALLEGIANCE TO, AND THE SUPREME COURT IN THAT 1898 CASE, YES, THE PARENTS WERE BROUGHT HERE LEGALLY AND BROUGHT TO HELP BUILD THE RAILROADS IN CALIFORNIA, BUT THE COURT DID -- BASICALLY SAID THERE IS NOT A DISTINCTION HERE IN TERMS OF WHAT THE IMMIGRATION STATUS IS.

IT COMES DOWN ARE YOU SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION OF THE LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY AND WHAT DOES THE 14th AMENDMENT SAY?

YES, IT WAS WRITTEN FOR SLAVES AND FOR FREED SLAVES, BUT IT WAS ALSO -- YOU KNOW, DISCUSSED THAT IT WAS TO APPLY TO IMMIGRANTS AND A NATION OF IMMIGRANTS AND A NATION AT THAT TIME WHERE MOST PEOPLE, MOST PEOPLE WERE COMING TO THE COUNTRY FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

IT WAS A WAY TO NATIONALIZE CITIZENSHIP SO IT WAS NOT RECOGNIZED STATE BY STATE, SO A CITIZEN IN NEW YORK DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS A CITIZEN IN GEORGIA BECAUSE THEY WERE VIEWED DIFFERENTLY.

SO IT WAS A WAY TO NORMALIZE THAT, AND YOU KNOW, AND REALLY THE ONLY CARVEOUTS FOR FOLKS WHO ARE BORN HERE ARE FOR DIPLOMATS AND FOR THE INVADING ARMYS AND NOT FOR THE CHILDREN OF NONCITIZEN IMMIGRANTS.

>> AND ONE OTHER POINT THAT CAME OUT OF 1898 CASE.

THE COURT SAID, LOOK, UP UNTIL NOW, ANYBODY WHO IS WHITE, WHO IS BORN HERE, WE'VE NEVER QUESTIONED THEIR CITIZENSHIP EVEN IF PARENTS WERE NOT HERE LEGALLY.

IT WAS SOMETHING THAT SEEMED TO BEING APPLIED BASED ON THE PERSON'S COLOR.

SO THE COURT SAID, LOOK, UP UNTIL NOW, FROM 1776 THROUGH 1898, THERE WASN'T A QUESTION EVEN BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR AND BEFORE THE 14th AMENDMENT.

TED: WITH THAT IN MIND, THE SUPREME COURT AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW.

IF THEY GET THIS AND POSSIBLY COULD.

>> THEY WILL.

TED: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THE SUPREME COURT, AS MUCH AS YOU'VE GOT A FEW -- I SAY THE THREE DISSENTING VOTING.

LEAVING ASIDE, I THINK THE COURT LOOKS AT THE IDEA UNPRECEDENTED AND ONE THING TO OVERTURN ROE, BASED ON THE NUMBER OF PENUMBRA OF PRIVACY THAT ISN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION.

THIS I AGREE WITH JIM, THIS IS BLACK LETTER LAW, THE 14th AMENDMENT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS, REDEFINES AND FURTHER CLARIFIES THE 1898 RULING.

THERE IS MORE RECENT RULING IN PLIER V. DOE WHICH HAD TO DO WITH SCHOOL CHILDREN WHO GET TO GO TO SCHOOL AND THE SUPREME COURT SAID THE FACT THEY'RE HERE ILLEGALLY DOES NOT DENY THEM CERTAIN BASIC RIGHTS.

YOU HAVE A HARD TIME OVERTURNING THAT.

>> THE SUPREME COURT TOOK UP THE DIFFERENT CLAUSE IN THE 14th AMENDMENT BUT TOOK IT UP WITH REGARD TO THE CANDIDACY OF DONALD TRUMP AND WHETHER HE WAS ELIGIBLE TO HOLD OFFICE AS SOMEONE INVOLVED IN INSURRECTION AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.

THERE WERE A LOT OF HISTORICAL SCHOLARS AND FOLKS WHO LOOKED AT THAT AND THE DEBATES AND WHAT WAS DISCUSSED AT THE TIME, AND AGAIN THIS IS BLACK LETTER LAW.

THIS SHOULD NOT BE A DIFFICULT THING FOR THE COURT TO DO, AND THE COURT FOUND A WAY TO DANCE AROUND THAT AND PUNT ON THE ISSUE AND NOT WEIGH IN AND BENEFIT TRUMP AND ALLOW HIM TO RUN EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS AMPLE EVIDENCE OF -- >> THE PUNTING ON THE ISSUE MEANS THE LAW STAYS THE WAY IT IS, AND TRUMP LOSES.

TED: LAURIE, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE COURT WOULD DO?

>> I THINK THEY WILL LEAVE TO TO STAND AS IT IS.

I LOOK AT THE PRECEDENT, IF A PRESIDENT, THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD, GRANTED, IF ONE MAN WITH EXECUTIVE ORDER TO STRIP THE CONSTITUTION AND CHANGE IT INTO SOMETHING ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT, WHAT'S TO SAY THE NEXT PRESIDENT, PERHAPS A DEMOCRAT, MIGHT STRIP RIGHTS OUT OF THE 2nd AMENDMENT TO SAY THERE ARE CERTAIN GUNS YOU CAN USE OR DO AWAY WITH CERTAIN GUNS.

I THINK IT'S A PRETTY TERRIBLE PRECEDENT, AND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO CHANGE THE 14th AMENDMENT, DO IT THE WAY YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO CHANGE THE 14th AMENDMENT, GO INTO CONGRESS AND GET THREE-QUARTERS OF THE STATES TO RATIFY AN AMENDMENT.

>> THERE'S ONE OTHER IMPORTANT POINT, IS THERE REALLY PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR THIS?

IN 2011 AFTER THE HEELS OF SENATE BILL 1070, RUSSELL PEARCE AND JOHN KAVANAGH TRIED A SIMILAR MEASURE ON STATE LEVEL TO SAY WE WON'T RECOGNIZE THE BIRTH CERTIFICATES TO TRY TO CREATE THE TEST CASE.

THEY COULDN'T GET THAT BILL OUT OF THE SENATE.

THAT WAS A REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED SENATE IN THE HEAT OF SENATE BILL 1070.

TED: BACK TO ANOTHER IDEA THAT THE ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO DO, THAT'S HAVING I.C.E.

AGENTS IN SCHOOLS AND SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION TOM HORNE, REPUBLICAN, NOT CRAZY ABOUT THE IDEA.

>> IT'S REFRESHING TO HEAR A REPUBLICAN CALL INTO QUESTION SOMETHING THAT TRUMP IS DOING BECAUSE IF YOU WATCH IN WASHINGTON AS HE'S PARDONING J.6 PROTESTERS BEATING UP COPS AND THE BACK THE BLUE PEOPLE ARE FINE WITH IT AND GET A PAINED LOOK ON THEIR FACE BUT SAY NOT A WORD, IT'S REFRESHING THAT TOM HORNE WILL TELL THE TRUTH AND SAY THIS IS NOT GOOD FOR KIDS TO BRING I.C.E.

AGENTS INTO SCHOOLS, INTO CHURCHES, INTO HOSPITALS.

HE WAS SPEAKING MERELY OF SCHOOLS BUT SAYING THAT'S GOING TO HURT KIDS BECAUSE PARENTS ARE GOING TO KEEP THEIR KIDS HOME AND THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR KIDS.

>> THAT COMES BACK TO WHERE TEXAS TRIED TO SAY WE DO NOT EDUCATE THE CHILDREN HERE ILLEGALLY OR THE CHILDREN OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, AND AGAIN 1982, U.S. SUPREME COURT SAID NO, WE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE, GO BACK TO YOUR POINT ABOUT GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE.

WE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE UNEDUCATED, WHO ARE WITHIN OUR BORDERS, AND IT IS IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST THAT PEOPLE GO TO SCHOOL AND GET EDUCATED.

>> HOW FAR DOES HORN GO ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

>> GOOD QUESTION.

I DON'T KNOW.

AND LEGALLY, WHAT IS HE ALLOWED TO DO, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE INTERSECTION OF FEDERAL AND STATE LAW AND STATE POLICY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO, BUT I THINK I AGREE WITH LAURIE'S POINT, IT WAS REFRESHING TO HEAR AN ANSWER, NO, THAT'S A BAD IDEA.

>> I DIDN'T KNOW REPUBLICANS COULD DO THAT.

>> AN EQUIVOCATION FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> I DIDN'T KNOW REPUBLICANS WERE ALLOWED TO DISAGREE ANYMORE.

YOU SEE IT, AND ANYBODY DISAGREEING WITH ANYTHING IS SHOUTED DOWN IN AN ASTONISHING FASHION.

TED: YOU SEE A LOT OF FOLLOW-UP TO WHAT THE PRESIDENT WANTS IN TERMS OF CONGRESS.

WILL THE LEGISLATURE DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?

CAN THE LEGISLATURE DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT?

>> I DON'T KNOW THEY HAVE A ROLE IN IT.

TED: DOES THAT NECESSARILY STOP THEM?

>> AGAIN, COME BACK TO PLYWOOD, THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT SCHOOLS.

IF IMMIGRATIONS AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT SHOWS UP AT TUCSON HIGH SCHOOL, VERY LITTLE THE LEGISLATURE CAN DO.

TUCSON MAYOR ROMERO SAYS TO THE TUCSON POLICE, YOU ARE GOING TO TRY TO STOP THEM?

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO.

REMEMBER LESTER MADDUX AT THE SCHOOL ABOUT KEEPING OUT BLACK CHILDREN, GOING TO STAND THERE WITH THE AXE HANDLE AND KEEP I.C.E.

AGENTS OUT OF SCHOOLS?

>> YES, UNTIL FEDERAL AGENTS ARREST HER AND TALKING ABOUT BLOCKING THE ADMINISTRATION.

>> I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE LONG BEFORE KATIE HOBBS FINDS HER THERE AND THE POSSIBILITY OF JAIL.

TED: WE'LL GET TO THAT AT A LATER DATE.

STICK WITH TOM HORNE, HIS STATE OF EDUCATION SPEECH, HE'S WORRIED ABOUT FRAUDULENT DIPLOMAS, AND WANTS EXIT EXAMS.

>> WE USED TO HAVE EXIT EXAMS, THE ARIZONA INSTRUMENT MEASURE OF STANDARDS, AIMS TEST.

AEST THAT HARDLY ANYBODY COULD PASS, THE LEGISLATURE'S ANSWER IS NOT PUT MORE RESOURCES TO EDUCATE THE KIDS BUT TO WATER DOWN THE STANDARDS, AND YOU KNOW PEOPLE WERE LIGHTING THEIR HAIR ON FIRE BECAUSE KIDS WEREN'T ABLE TO GRADUATE, STOW WENT AWAY.

AND THE PERSON WHO SPONSORED THAT BILL WAS KELLI WARD, FORMER STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRWOMAN.

NOW WE'RE BACK TO THAT.

DO WE WANT THE STANDARDIZED TEST THAT IS A HIGH-STAKES TEST, PASS IT OR YOU DON'T GRADUATE, KID?

TED: DOES HE WANT FOR ALL SCHOOLS FOR THIS, OR SCHOOLS THAT HAVE HIGH GRADUATION RATES BUT SKILLS ATTAINMENT NOT SO HIGH?

>> IT'S EVERYONE AND ESSENTIALLY FEW EXCEPTIONS FOR KIDS WHO ARE IN VO-TEC PROGRAM.

IF YOU GOT A TECHNICAL CERTIFICATION, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO PASS THE SON OF AIMS EXAM.

KIDS WITH EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS, SPECIAL NEEDS WOULD NOT HAVE IT.

I COME FROM NEW YORK WHERE THERE IS A REGENTS EXAM, AND YOU NEED THAT TO GET A DIPLOMA.

THE QUESTION IS, WILL LAWMAKERS GO BACK AND PUT THIS IN PLACE BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM ALL THE PARENTS, MY KID CAN'T GET OUT, AND SO WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE?

WE DO A REGENTS DIPLOMA AND REGULAR DIPLOMA, WHICH IS A PARTICIPATION MEDAL FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD.

IT'S GOING TO COME BACK TO WHAT LAURIE TALKED ABOUT, KIDS AREN'T GOING TO PASS AT THE POINT OF 15% OR MORE FIND THEMSELVES, EVEN IF THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE IT TWICE IN THE 11th GRADE AND TWICE IN THE 12th GRADE AND CAN'T PASS, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

>> THE OTHER QUESTION IS, NOW THAT WE HAVE THE VOUCHER PROGRAM WHERE PUBLIC MONEY GOES TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS TO EDUCATE KIDS, WILL THE MANDATE BE IMPOSED UPON PRIVATE SCHOOLS AS WELL?

>> I THINK THE TERM IS HELL NO.

TED: WAS THIS NOT INTRODUCED LAST SESSION?

SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES?

>> THEY'VE HAD VARIANTS FOR A WHILE.

HORNE DECIDED TO COME OUT STRONGLY.

HAVE YOU PEOPLE LIKE MATT GRESS, FORMER SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER.

REMEMBER THIS IS NOT UNIVERSAL AMONG REPUBLICANS.

DIANE DOUGLAS, THE REPUBLICAN STATE SCHOOLS CHIEF WHO CHEERED GETTING RID OF THE AIMS TEST AND SAID WHY ARE WE DOING THIS?

IF THE SCHOOLS ARE FAILING, WHY ARE WE PENALIZING THE STUDENTS?

TED: ARE WE GOING TO HAVE A SON OF AIMS?

>> PROBABLY NOT.

I DON'T THINK IT'S THE KIND OF THING, A, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT GETS THE TRACTION TO GET THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE.

IF IT DOES, I DON'T KNOW WHAT GOVERNOR HOBBS WOULD DO WITH IT, AND IT IS REALLY INTERESTING TO GO BACK AND REVISIT WHAT HAPPENED A DECADE AGO OR SO.

THERE WAS SO MUCH DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW BAD IT WAS FOR EDUCATION TO HAVE THE HIGH-STAKES TEST, YOU ARE TEACHING THE TEST AND TEACHING TO THAT EXAM AND THE WORK IN THE CLASSROOMS WAS ALL ABOUT TRYING TO GET THOSE KIDS TO PASS BECAUSE THE SCHOOLS THEN GOT PENALIZED IF THE STUDENTS DIDN'T PASS.

THE INCENTIVES ARE NOT ABOUT EDUCATING THE KIDS, IT'S ABOUT PASSING THE TEST.

>> WHEN THEY GOT RID OF IT, I THINK IN 2015, THE VOTE WAS NEARLY UNANIMOUS.

THERE WERE A FEW OUTLIERS, ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED TO GET RID OF THE TEST WAS KATIE HOBBS.

TED: REAL QUICKLY BEFORE WE GO, ANOTHER TOPIC IS CONSOLIDATING SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

>> EVER SEEN A BETTER REASON DO IT?

TED: ISAAC SCHOOL DISTRICT, 4800 STUDENTS, $19 MILLION IN THE RED?

>> BECAUSE THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE PLACE WERE EITHER INCOMPETENT OR CORRUPT OR SOME COMBINATION.

I DON'T KNOW.

WE'RE NOT SAYING THEY'RE CORRUPT BUT HAD A PROBLEM.

THE AUDITOR GENERAL STARTED SOUNDING THE ALARM LAST JULY SAYING, LOOK, YOUR REPORTS AREN'T CORRECT.

YOU'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE FINANCIAL RULES THAT YOU HAVE TO DO.

IN OCTOBER THEY SAID AGAIN, THERE'S A PROBLEM HERE.

BY DECEMBER, THE AUDITOR GENERAL WAS SAYING THEY'RE OVERBUDGET, WE CAN'T TELL YOU BY HOW MUCH AND BY HOW MUCH WAS $19 MILLION, AND SEEMED TO BE A SURPRISE TO EVERYBODY.

SO NOW YOU HAVE THE POINT WHERE THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION LAST WEEK TOOK THEM OVER, PUT THEM INTO RECEIVERSHIP, THE COUNTY TREASURER WHO PAYS THE BILLS, DOESN'T RAISE THE MONEY OR ANYTHING, JUST THE BANKER.

WE LOANED THEM $16 MILLION.

NOT GOING TO GIVE THEM ANY MORE MONEY PAST NEXT WEEK.

HE PAID THE BILLS FOR THE CHECKS AND THE TEACHERS AND THE PRINCIPALS, ET CETERA AND SAID NO MORE MONEY, AND EVERYBODY IS LOOKING, HOBBS AND MAYES AND LEARN, THEY'RE SAYING THE COUNTY SHOULD GO AHEAD AND PAY THE BILLS AND THE TREASURER IS SAYING WE DON'T GOT THE MONEY.

>> BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION, DOES THIS RAISE THIS ISSUE YET AGAIN?

>> IT MIGHT, BUT IT'S GOING TO FACE THE SAME CHALLENGES IT'S FACED IN THE PAST.

WE WENT THROUGH THE SONG AND DANCE 15 OR SO YEARS AGO, AND THEY FINALLY AFTER PROBABLY A DECADE OF TALKING ABOUT IT AND TRYING TO GET THE SUPPORT FOR IT, ABLE TO GET THE SUPPORT AND GET THE LEGISLATURE TO SEND SOMETHING TO THE BALLOT, AND REQUIRE A PLAN TO FIGURE OUT WHICH DISTRICTS CONSOLIDATE, WHICH ONCE ARE GOING TO MERGE, GO AWAY, WHO'S IN CHARGE OF RUNNING THE SCHOOLS AND THE MONEY AND ALL OF IT, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE VOTERS AND GET ALL OF THOSE VOTERS ON BOARD IN ORDER TO DO IT.

IF THEY DON'T ALL GET ON BOARD, IF ONE OF THE DOMINOS DOESN'T FALL, THEN THE WHOLE THING FALLS APART.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IN 2008, 2010.

>> PEOPLE LIKE THEIR LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

>> TIMES HAVE CHANGED SINCE THEN.

WE HAVE, WHAT?

50 SOME SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN MARICOPA COUNTY AND 200 SOME STATEWIDE.

SOMETHING'S GOT TO GIVE.

TED: THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.