♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING THE GOVERNOR'S SLUSH FUND?

THAT'S NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY, AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING US TONIGHT MARY JO PITZL OF "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" AND AZCENTRAL.COM.

HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES, AND JIM SMALL OF THE "ARIZONA MIRROR."

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

MARY JO -- ACTUALLY HOW, WE START WITH YOU, YOU RAISED THE DUST ABOUT SLUSH FUND?

GOVERNOR?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT A SLUSH FUND.

I MEAN, LOOK, THIS IS A GOVERNOR WHO FOUND WAYS TO GET MONEY BEYOND HER CAMPAIGN FINANCE.

YOU KNOW, IT TOOK AWHILE TO FIGURE OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, HOW SHE COLLECTED 1.5 MILLION FOR AN INAUGURAL THAT COST $207,000 INCLUDING 250,000 FROM APS, PINNACLE WEST ALONE.

MORE THAN THE COST OF IT.

WELL, NOW, I'VE COME TO FIND OUT SHE HAS A LEGAL DEFENSE FUND.

NOW, I KNOW THAT APS PUT IN $100,000 BECAUSE THEY'RE REQUIRED UNDER THE CORPORATION COMMISSION TO SAY WHO THEY'RE GIVING TO.

HOW MUCH IS IN THE FUND?

WON'T SAY.

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, PRETTY MUCH.

WHO GAVE TO THE FUND?

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

WHAT'S TRUE IS, IT IS LEGAL, THEY REWROTE THE LAW IN 2016 TO SAY ANY SORT OF LEGAL DEFENSE, LEGAL FUNDS CAN BE CONTRIBUTED AND NOT HAVE TO BE DISCLOSED.

BUT FOR A GOVERNOR WHO PROMISED TO BE THE MOST ACCOUNTABLE AND TRANSPARENT WHEN SHE WAS RUNNING FOR OFFICE, NOT A GOOD LUCK.

TED: AGAIN, THIS IS LEGAL AS FAR AS LEGAL SERVICES ARE CONCERNED.

CORRECT?

>> APPARENTLY SO.

SO IF YOU STICK TO THE STRICT LETTER OF THE LAW, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOOD TO GO.

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT SHE IS WORRIED ABOUT BEING SUED ON?

THAT SHE HAS TO HAVE A LEGAL DEFENSE.

>> SOME OF IT WAS KARI LAKE WENT TO COURT EIGHT TIMES AND SAID HERE'S THE THEORY DUJOUR OF WHY I AM THE GOVERNOR, AND KARI LOST AND KATIE -- PEOPLE HIRED OTHERS AND THAT COST MONEY.

PART OF THAT IN TERMS OF OPENNESS AND SLUSH FUND IS BECAUSE OF THE FACT IT'S EXEMPT, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MONEY WENT.

I CAN'T TELL YOU WHETHER SOME OF IT WENT FOR A BIG PARTY FOR THE NINTH FLOOR.

I'M NOT SAYING IT DID, BUT THERE'S NO AUDITING, NOT EVEN A QUESTION, YOU CAN KEEP IT SECRET BUT YOU CAN KEEP IT SECRET FROM STATE AUDITORS.

TED: JIM, $100,000 FOR LEGAL EXPENSES, MORE THAN ANY POLITICAL DONATION AS FAR AS APS WAS CONCERNED.

IT DOESN'T LOOK ALL THAT GOOD, DOES IT?

>> THE OPTICES ARE BAD, AND TO HOWIE'S POINT, HOBBS' DECLARATION SHE WAS GOING TO RUN THE MOST TRANSPARENT ADMINISTRATION, AS GOVERNOR, I THINK THAT THIS DOES CUT AGAINST THAT AND FLIES IN THE FACE OF THAT AND RAISES THE QUESTIONS WHO IS GIVING THE MONEY, WHAT ARE THEY ASKING THE GOVERNOR TO DO FOR THEM IN TERMS OF POLICY, WHAT ARE THEY LOBBYING FOR, SUPPORTING OR OPPOSING THE LEGISLATURE, AND HOW DOES THAT WASH?

EVERY YEAR THEY HAVE A LOT OF LEGISLATION, AND A VERY IMPORTANT ONE THAT GOT SIGNED THIS YEAR, AND IT CUTS AGAINST THE IDEA, IS THIS ALL ABOVE BOARD.

TED: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BILL ALLOWING UTILITIES TO SELL LOW INTEREST BONDS.

THIS IS APS BILL.

DIDN'T THEY WRITE THIS THING?

>> THEY HAVE A SUBSIDIARY CALLED UNISOURCE, THE IDEA IS, ON PAPER, MAKES SENSE, AND REMEMBERING THAT I'M HERE AS A JOURNALIST BECAUSE I'M NOT GOOD AT NUMBERS.

IF YOU CAN SELL OFF SOME OF YOUR DEBT, LOW INTEREST BONDS, THEORETICALLY MAKES A LOWER COST DOWN THE ROAD FOR YOUR RATEPAYERS, BUT THE PROBLEMS BECOME THAT IT TAKES SOME OF THE CONTROL OUT OF THE UTILITY RATES AWAY FROM THE CORPORATION COMMISSION BECAUSE IT ALLOWS THEM TO PASS ON THE COST OF THIS, ALLOWS THEM TO USE THE BONDS TO RETIRE, PLANTS THEY SHOULD HAVE CLOSED WHETHER IT'S A COAL-FIRED PLANT AT THE FOUR CORNERS, KEEP IT OPERATING AND PAID OFF BY THE RATEPAYERS, AND LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY, DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR WHO SIGNED IT, I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE A LINK TO THE AMOUNTS OF MONEY THEY'VE GIVEN HER OVER THE YEARS, BUT NO DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE WHO VOTED FOR THIS, AND ONLY 11 OF THE 28 DEMOCRATS I THINK IN THE HOUSE VOTED FOR THIS.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS IT WAS A BIPARTISAN BILL.

YOU THROW IN A HANDFUL OF DEMOCRATS, THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT BIPARTISAN.

TED: ANOTHER BILL GETS SIGNED FOR UTILITIES FOR WILDFIRES AND THESE THINGS.

TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.

>> AN INTERESTING BILL BECAUSE AT ITS UNVEILING AT THE FIRST HEARING, PEOPLE ARE WALKING AWAY HOLDING THEIR JAWS IN THEIR HANDS, SAYING MY GOODNESS, THIS WOULD GIVE TOTAL IMMUNITY TO A POWER UTILITY IF IT'S SUED FOR ITS POWER LINES CAUSING WILDFIRES.

AND TRIAL LAWYERS AND THE INSURERS BANDED TOGETHER TO FIGHT THIS, A VERY INTERESTING AND UNUSUAL ALLIANCE, AND WITH TIME, IT DID GET TAMPED DOWN, BUT IT STILL ALLOWS A FAIR AMOUNT OF IMMUNITY, SO IF YOU ARE APS OR TPS OR SRP AND A NUMBER OF ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES, AND YOUR POWER LINES OR TRANSFORMERS ARE FOUND TO HAVE CAUSED A WILDFIRE, AND YOU HAVE NOT TAKEN ALL THE STEPS THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PUT INTO THIS WILDFIRE MITIGATION PLAN, THEN THERE COULD BE A LAWSUIT, BUT IT WILL PROBABLY STILL BE A MORE DIFFICULT CLIMB.

TED: AND JIM, THE MITIGATION PLANS WERE A BIG PART OF THIS LEGISLATION, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT SOME FOLKS ARE SAYING, OKAY, PARTIAL LIABILITY, WE GET THAT.

THAT'S A BIT OF A BREAK IN SOME RESPECTS BUT GET A MITIGATION PLAN.

>> THAT WAS THE TRADE-OFF.

MARY JO IS RIGHT, WHEN THE BILL FIRST CAME OUT INITIAL VERSION WAS COMPLETE IMMUNITY, AND KIND OF INOCULATED THE UTILITIES FROM HAVING TO BEAR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANYTHING, AND YOU KNOW, THROUGH LOTS OF NEGOTIATION, BRINGING LOTS OF PEOPLE TO THE TABLE AND COMPROMISE, AND I THINK THE FINAL BILL THAT YOU DO SEE IS THE RESULT OF THAT COMPROMISE, OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF PEOPLE STILL ARE UNHAPPY WITH IT AND TRUE IS AS A GIFT TO THE UTILITIES AND SOMETHING THAT DOES PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS.

>> ONE OF THE IMPORTANT CHANGES THAT WAS MADE IS THAT THESE PLANS INITIALLY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DRAWN UP BY THE UTILITY AND APPROVED BY THEIR OWN BOARD OF DIRECTORS, RAISING THE QUESTION, HOW TIGHTLY ARE YOU GOING TO REGULATE YOURSELF IN THE LEGISLATION MOVES THAT OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITY TO THE STATE FORRESTER WHICH MAKES SENSE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO PUT OUT THE FIRES.

THE HOPE IS HAVING THE SCRUTINY, THE UTILITIES COME UP WITH A REALISTIC PLAN, SOMETHING THAT HAS TEETH IN IT AND THAT DOES DO AGGRESSIVE WORK LIKE ON TRIMMING THE VEGETATION, IT'S IN THEIR RIGHT OF WAY.

>> ONE OTHER IMPORTANT THING TO SAY, JIM TALKS ABOUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO COMPROMISE.

THE ORIGINAL BILL WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

ARIZONA HAS ARTICLE 18-6 AND SAYS YOU MAY NOT LIMIT THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS TO SUE AND COLLECT FOR DAMAGES.

SO IT WASN'T A QUESTION OF SUDDENLY UTILITIES SAY WE'VE SEEN THE LIGHT.

NO.

WE HAD TO FIND SOMETHING THAT WE THINK WE COULD SNEAK BY THE COURTS.

TED: AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IT DOES TAKE TIME FOR A SIGNING AND THE BILL TO BECOME LAW.

BY THE TIME IT BECOMES LAW, WE'RE PAST WILDFIRE SEASON.

>> PROBABLY, THE MONSOON HAS COME AND GONE, 90 DAYS AFTER THE LEGISLATURE GOES AWAY, THEY'RE GOING TO LEAVE SOMETIME NEXT MONTH.

DO YOUR MATH AND LOOKING AT SEPTEMBER.

TED: 2026 WILDFIRE MITIGATION.

[LAUGHTER] >> RIGHT.

TED: OTHER SIGNINGS AND VETOES, JIM, IMPROVE AGE VERIFICATION FOR PORN SITES AND REASONABLE METHODS, IF YOU'RE UNDER 18, MAKE SURE PEOPLE UNDER 18 AREN'T SEEING THESE THINGS.

>> THAT'S THE IDEA.

ARIZONA IS THE LATEST IN A LONG LINE OF STATES, HALF DOZEN OR SO, A GROWING NUMBER OF STATES PUTTING THESE AGE VERIFICATION LAWS IN PLACE, ESSENTIALLY TO KEEP MINORS AWAY FROM PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIAL ONLINE.

THE WEBSITES HAVE TO ESSENTIALLY COLLECT YOUR ID, AND VERIFY WHO YOU ARE, ASSUMING THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE TECHNICALLY LITERATE DON'T PUNCH A COUPLE BUTTONS AND WORK TO GET AROUND IT.

THERE'S QUESTION ABOUT CONSTITUTIONALITY ABOUT THIS.

LAWS AND OTHER STATES HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED ON FIRST AMENDMENT GROUNDS THAT THIS IS GOVERNMENT TRYING TO INFRINGE ON FREE SPEECH AND PEOPLE'S ACCESS TO FREE SPEECH.

ARIZONA HAD ONE OF THE LAWS A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, 20 YEARS AGO, SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS THAT WAS STRUCK DOWN ON FIRST AMENDMENT GROUNDS, THIS IS A DIFFERENT WAY TO GET AT IT.

I IMAGINE WE WOULD GET LITIGATION ON THIS.

>> THE OTHER THING IS WHAT CONSTITUTES QUOTE, UNQUOTE PORNOGRAPHY, THE SUPREME COURT SAYS I'LL KNOW IT WHEN I SEE IT.

IF YOU PROVIDE INFORMATION YOUNG PEOPLE WANT OR NEED ABOUT THEIR SEXUALITY, ABOUT TRANSGENDERISM OR ANYTHING ELSE, HAVE YOU CROSSED THE LINE INTO WHAT'S PORNOGRAPHY?

THAT'S WHERE IT GETS TRICKY.

NOT JUST THE VERIFICATION AND YOU HAVE SOMEBODY CHECKING AND YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE THEM WITH SOME SORT OF ID, THAT IS STILL TO BE WORKED OUT, BUT WHERE IS THE LINE IN TERMS OF WHAT'S PORNOGRAPHIC.

TED: ARE THERE RUMBLINGS OF A LAWSUIT OF SOME KIND?

>> SOMEBODY IS GOING TO BE DENIED ACCESS AND WILL GO TO THE ACLU OR OTHER ORGANIZATION AND WILL SAY I WAS DENIED ACCESS EITHER BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE THE GOVERNMENT OR SOME THIRD PARTY SITE MY INFORMATION, OR BECAUSE THEY DETERMINE THIS IS PORNOGRAPHIC AND I DON'T THINK IT MEETS THE DEFINITION OF PORNOGRAPHY OR OBSCENE.

TED: TEACHERS MUST USE GULF OF AMERICA INSTEAD OF GULF OF MEXICO.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS, NO, THANK YOU.

>> SO SAID THE LEGISLATURE.

THE GOVERNOR DISAGREED AND SAID, WE GOT MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO IN OUR CLASSROOMS THAT REALLY NEED ATTENTION.

THIS OBVIOUSLY WAS SORT OF A SOP TO THE PRESIDENT WHO DEEMED THAT THE GULF OF MEXICO SHOULD NOW BE CALLED THE GULF OF AMERICA.

IT WOULD BE NICE TO ALIGN OUR TEXT BOOKS.

TED: HOW WOULD YOU ENFORCE SOMETHING, WOULD YOU GO EVERY CLASSROOM AND SAY NO, THAT DOESN'T SAY GULF OF AMERICA.

>> OR GEOGRAPHY LESSON, WHATEVER COMES OUT OF THE INSTRUCTORS SOUTH?

.

>> WHAT'S FASCINATING IS 60% OF THE BORDERLINE AROUND THE GULF IS UNITED STATES.

TRUE.

WHAT HE'S CONVENIENTLY FORGETS IS THIS HAS BEEN CALLED GULF OF MEXICO SINCE THE 1600s.

IN THE 1600s, NONE OF WHAT WAS TO BE UNITED STATES WAS AROUND THIS GULF.

FLORIDA WAS OWNED BY THE SPANISH.

TED: YOU ARE MAKING SUCH A BIG DEAL ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS -- IT'S SO -- >> I APPRECIATE THAT, BUT IT'S THE LACK OF LOGIC AND HISTORY BEHIND IT.

LOUISIANA WAS OWNED BY THE FRENCH.

TEXAS WAS PART OF MEXICO.

THERE WAS NO -- TED: AND CANADA WAS ITS OWN COUNTRY AND GREENLAND.

>> WE'RE WORKING ON THAT.

TED: WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD.

ANOTHER VETO.

WARNINGS THAT IF A HOTEL RENTS OUT A ROOM OR ROOMS TO UNSHELTERED PEOPLE, WHAT SAY YOU?

>> THERE'S BEEN CONCERN THIS IS A BIT OF AN ISSUE THAT'S BEEN BANDIED ABOUT FOR A COUPLE YEARS, AND THE IDEA THERE ARE A NUMBER OF HOTELS THAT ARE BEING USED TO HOUSE HOMELESS PEOPLE AND THE IDEA THAT IT IS A DANGER TO PAYING GUESTS WHO SHOW UP AT THE HOTEL AND NOT REALIZE THERE ARE FOLKS WHO OTHERWISE DON'T HAVE A HOME TO GO TO WHO ARE STAYING THERE, AND SO THIS WAS THE IDEA BASICALLY TO PUT THE SIGNS UP, ESSENTIALLY TO SCARE PEOPLE AWAY FROM STAYING AT HOTELS AND SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THIS ANYMORE, NOT GOING TO MAKE OUR ROOMS AVAILABLE.

PUT PEOPLE WITH NO ROOMS IN SHELTERS, THERE'S NO BEDS IN SHELTERS, WE SEND THEM BACK ON THE STREETS.

>> THEY COULD BE IN THE PARKING LOT OF THE HOTEL.

>> WE DON'T SCARE OFF TOURISM AND UPSET TOURISTS.

>> I DON'T KNOW, I'M WAITING FOR THE BILLS THAT SAY WE NEED TO KNOW IF THERE'S A DRUG DEALER RENTING A ROOM OR A CRIMINAL OPERATION OR SOME KIND OF PROSTITUTION THING GOING ON HERE.

I DON'T KNOW.

WHEN I TRAVEL, I DON'T EVEN TAKE A LOOK WHO'S STANDING AROUND ME BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS IN THEIR ROOMS.

TED: THE GOVERNOR'S REASONING IS, FROM WHAT I READ, YOU'RE MICROMANAGING BUSINESSES THAT ARE TRYING TO HELP WITH THE HOMELESS SITUATION.

SHE COULD USE A NUMBER OF REASONS, I WOULD IMAGINE, THIS IS NOT GOING TO GET PAST HER.

>> I SEE THIS AS A WAY TO SHAME PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS.

THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, BUT ECONOMIC MISFORTUNE.

>> ANOTHER PIECE OF THE BILL SAID YOU CANNOT USE PUBLIC FUNDS FOR THE JOINT HOTELING.

THIS IS SOMETHING MATT GRESS, BASED ON THE FACT THAT SCOTTSDALE WOULD RENT ROOMS AND HOTELS, AND REASONS IF THERE ARE SHELTER BEDS AVAILABLE, YOU WANT TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN A SHELTER.

HE WAS SO OFFENDED BY IT.

TED: HE'S CALLING IT CONSUMER PROTECTION.

PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE PLACE THEY'RE STAYING.

>> COME ON NOW.

TO MARY JO'S POINT, ARE WE GOING TO SAY THERE ARE BROWN PEOPLE STAYING HERE?

I'M BEING A LITTLE FACETIOUS, BUT WHERE IS THE LINE IN TERMS OF WHO IS MORE DANGEROUS?

WE'RE TELLING WOMEN THERE ARE MEN STAYING IN THE HOTEL BECAUSE IF THERE ARE MEN STAYING IN THE REGION, THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING.

TED: ARE WE GETTING THERE YET?

>> SHE IS UP AT 138, AFTER SHE VETOED 48 EARLIER THIS WEEK, OVER TWO DAYS, THE RECORD IS FIVE MORE THAN THAT.

I DON'T THINK IT'S AN UNSAFE BET TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO BLOW PAST THAT EASILY.

LOOK AT NUMBER OF BILLS STILL OUT THERE.

I'M COUNTING ON THE BUDGET.

IF SHE VETOES THE BUDGET, THE BUDGET IS 11 BILLS BY ITSELF.

I ASKED HER EARLIER THIS WEEK, I SAID IS RECORD NUMBER OF VETO A FAILURE TO SHOW YOU CAN WORK BIPARTISAN FASHION?

SHE EXPLODED AND SAID MY GOD, THESE PEOPLE BE SENDING USELESS THINGS, IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT.

TED: JIM, DOES SHE HAVE A POINT?

>> THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH THE THIRD YEAR IN A ROW.

YOU HAVE AN EXTREMELY PARTISAN DIVIDE HERE AND A GULF OF PARTISANSHIP THAT HAS PROVEN DIFFICULT TO BRIDGE, AND I WAS REALLY SURPRISED THIS WEEK WHEN WE STARTED TALLYING UP THE VETO NUMBERS, MY GOD.

WE'RE ALMOST AT A RECORD.

SEEMS LIKE IT WAS SNEAKY, IN 2023, THE FIRST YEAR WHEN SHE SET THE RECORD, EVERYONE WAS KEENLY WATCHING IT AND FALLING ALONG.

AND ONCE SHE FLEW BY JANET NAPOLITANO'S RECORD IN MARCH, KIND OF KEPT GOING.

THIS IS A LOT OF VETOES.

THIS REALLY IS A LOT, AND I THINK IT'S A TESTAMENT TO THE FACT THAT THINGS CALMED DOWN LAST YEAR BEFORE THE ELECTION, WHICH IS ALMOST ODD THAT THEY FOUND A WAY TO WORK A LITTLE BIT BETTER TOGETHER AND I THINK REPUBLICANS HELD BACK THE BILLS THAT WERE DESIGN AS VETO BAIT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

THEY WERE AFRAID IT WAS A STRONG DEMOCRATIC YEAR, BUT NOW THAT THEY WON AND EXPANDED A MAJORITY, THEY COME BACK WITH A HEAD OF STEAM, AND SAID, WE'RE GOING TO GO AFTER ALL THIS AND SEND IT UP THERE AND MAKE HER VETO IT AND CONSIDER WHAT WE'RE GOING TO THROW ONTO THE BALLOT IN 2026.

TED: YEAH.

>> IT'S WORTH NOTING A GOOD MANY OF THE BILLS ARE THINGS THE GOVERNOR VETOED BEFORE, SO HAVE YOU LEARNED ANYTHING?

>> AND THAT'S THE POINT.

TOM HORNE SENT OUT A RELEASE SAYING I'M SHOCKED, SHOCKED TO KNOW THAT SHE WOULD VETO THE BILL ABOUT WHAT STUDENTS CAN BE CALLED AND PRONOUNS AND WHO CAN USE WHAT BATHROOM?

DID YOU SEE THE LAST TWO VETOES ON THIS?

AND, OF COURSE, HORNE IS WORRIED ABOUT HIS RIGHT FLANK BECAUSE HE'S PROBABLY FACING A REPUBLICAN AS SCHOOL CHIEF, AND HE WILL SHOW HOW PURE I AM.

I'M SHOCKED.

TED: MARY JO, ARE WE SHOCKED AT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE HERDING CATS.

WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> ISSUES THAT POINT TO THE NEW CHAIRMAN, ROBERT BRANSCOMB, HE WASN'T WELL KNOWN, A VICE CHAIRMAN FOR SIX MONTHS BEFORE THAT, AND THERE'S BEEN A SERIES OF ACTIONS WHICH IS WRANGLED PEOPLE TO THE POINT -- MOSTLY INSIDERS TO THE POINT PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO SPEAK OUT AND SAY HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE BYLAWS, WE TRIED TO GET A BUDGET OUT.

WE HAD TO POSTPONE DOING THAT FOR AT LEAST TWO MEETINGS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES.

HE FAMOUSLY PICKED HIS OWN PERSON FOR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WHICH IS HIS RIGHT, BUT ONLY AFTER HE COMMISSIONED A NATIONWIDE SEARCH COMMITTEE WHICH CAME UP WITH TWO CANDIDATES WHICH HAD INPUT FROM ALL OF THE TOP DEMOCRATS ELECTED IN THE STATE FROM MARK KELLY AND GALLEGO TO KRIS MAYES, FONTES, HOBBS, SO IT'S JUST SORT OF PILING UP, AND NOT GOING WELL WITH A LOT OF THE PARTY INSIDERS, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THIS IS GETTING OUT TO RANK AND FILE DEMOCRATS.

TED: JIM, ALL THE STATE LEADERS THAT MARY JO MENTIONED, THEY'RE SAYING HE'S GOT TO GO.

THEY'RE NOT IN HIS CORNER.

>> THEY'RE NOT IN HIS CORNER.

I THINK THAT WHEN HE GOT ELECTED, IN PARTICULAR -- I THINK IT WAS A SURPRISE.

I THINK A LOT OF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS, DEMOCRATIC ELECTED OFFICIALS WERE SURPRISED.

EVERYONE LINED UP BEHIND THE INCUMBENT CHAIRWOMAN TO GET HER REELECTED BACK IN JANUARY, AND IT WAS THE GOVERNOR KELLY AND GALLEGO, EVERYONE -- NO ONE WAS ON BOARD WITH HIS CANDIDACY TO BEGIN WITH, AND THEY CLASHED IMMEDIATELY AFTER HE GOT INTO OFFICE, AND SAW LIKE A MONTH AGO, HE SENT OUT A LETTER AND PUBLICLY AIRED LOOK, GALLEGO AND KELLY DON'T LIKE ME, AND I'M GOING TO TAKE THIS OUT PUBLIC, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT SHOCKED A LOT OF DEMOCRATS, A LOT OF POLITICAL INSIDERS, MY GOODNESS, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?

WHY ARE YOU AIRING THIS DIRTY LAUNDRY PUBLICLY?

AND THEY'VE DONE NOTHING TO TAMP DOWN THE ANGER.

>> AND THINGS COME OUT, THEY CANCELED MAJOR FUND-RAISING DINNER, SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN NEXT WEEKEND.

NOT A GOOD TIME TO HAVE A THING OVER MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND.

THEY SAY THEY'LL RESCHEDULE IT.

IT IS ONE THING AFTER ANOTHER.

>> A LOT OF THIS GOES BACK TO WHY HE GOT ELECTED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

RUBEN GALLEGO, NOTWITHSTANDING, NOT A GREAT YEAR FOR DEMOCRATS, AND THE TENDENCY OF BOTH PARTIES IS ALWAYS IF WE HAVE A BAD YEAR, LET'S BRING IN NEW BLOOD, AND EVEN THOUGH AS JIM SAYS, HE WAS WITH THE PARTY FOR A WHILE, HE WAS THE NEW BLOOD AND I DON'T THINK THEY DID THE PROPER VETTING ON HIM, WHEN THEY TALK TO HIM ABOUT WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS?

WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO?

SPEND SOME TIME GETTING TO KNOW HIM, AND HE WAS IN THERE BECAUSE WE WANTED NEW BLOOD.

OKAY, NOW YOU GOT IT.

TED: SOME BLACK LEADERS IN ARIZONA NOT HAPPY ABOUT ALL THIS FUSS.

>> THERE'S BEEN A FEELING WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, I THINK, THAT THERE ARE DEMOCRATS WHO, WHILE THEY COUNT ON THE BLACK VOTE -- >> AND WE NEED TO NOTE ROBERT BRANSCOMB IS BLACK AND THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN TO LEAD THE PARTY.

>> AND THERE ARE SUFFICIENT INCIDENTS, ONE GOING BACK WITH KATIE HOBBS, WHEN SHE WAS IN THE SENATE IN TERMS OF FIRING A BLACK STAFFER THERE, WHICH LED TO A FEDERAL COURT CASE AND A FINING AGAINST HER, SO THERE WERE JUST ENOUGH CASES WHERE THE BLACK COMMUNITY SAY LOOK, WE'VE BEEN BEHIND YOU, NOW THAT WE'RE COMING UP WITH POWER, WHERE ARE YOU?

TED: RIGHT, SO WHERE IS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY RIGHT NOW, JIM?

>> I THINK -- HONESTLY, IT'S TOUGH TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON.

THERE'S A LOT OF FIGHT AND INFIGHTING.

IT'S THE KIND OF THING WE HAVEN'T SEEN OUT OF THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY FOR A WHILE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BECOME RELATIVELY COMMON PLACE WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

WE'VE SEEN THE BATTLES ERUPT OVER CHAIRMANSHIPS AND DONORS SAYING I'M GOING TO TAKE MY BALL AND GO AWAY, AND WE'RE STARTING TO SEE THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW TOO, AND I THINK IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHAT THE NEXT SIX MONTHS HOLD THAT THEY HEAD INTO ELECTION YEAR.

TED: HOWIE, WE GOT FARMERS AND RANCHERS IN RURAL TOWNS FILING SUIT AGAINST THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO WANTS THE SAUDI ARABIAN COMPANY TO STOP PUMPING GROUND WATER.

WHY ARE THEY TRYING TO STOP HER FROM STOPPING THEM?

>> WELL, THE FONDOMONTE LAWSUIT, YOU HAVE THE COMPANY GROWING ALFALFA TO SEND BACK TO SAUDI ARABIA TO FEED DAIRY CATTLE THERE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GROW ALFALFA THERE BECAUSE IT'S NOT DESERT.

ARIZONA HAS LACKS GROUND WATER LAWS FOR RURAL ARIZONA.

KRIS MAYES WILL ADMIT, NOTHING THAT FONDOMONTE IS DOING VIOLATES SECTION OF THE WATER LAW.

SHE HAS A THEORY, THEY'RE CREATING A PUBLIC NUISANCE BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING UP OTHER PEOPLE'S WELLS.

NEVER MIND THAT STATE LAW SAYS THAT KIND OF PUMPING ISN'T A NUISANCE, BUT THE FEAR OF THE FARMERS AND THE CITIES LIKE HOLBROOK ARE SAYING, WAIT A SECOND, IF SHE CAN DECIDE -- WE COMPLY WITH THE LAWS THAT SHE CAN BE SUCCESSFUL WITH FONDOMONTE, WHAT IS SHE GOING TO DO NEXT?

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE FONDOMONTE WINS.

NOT THAT THEY'RE IN FAVOR OF THE SAUDI COMPANY, THEY DON'T WANT THE PRECEDENT.

TED: THE PRECEDENT IS THE KEY, IS IT NOT?

>> YEAH, YEAH.

WATER IS FOR FIGHTING OVER, AS WE SAY.

TED: AND DO YOU -- IS THIS CONSIDERED A TEST CASE, DO YOU THINK?

THAT WHAT SHE'S LOOKING AT HERE?

>> DEFINITELY.

I THINK THIS IS A NOVEL LEGAL THEORY.

TED: THE PUBLIC NUISANCE?

>> THE PUBLIC NUISANCE THEORY TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING.

THE LEGISLATURE, THIS IS SOMETHING KNOWN ABOUT FOR A FEW YEARS NOW, AND THERE HAVE BEEN IDEAS THAT COME UP TO LAWMAKERS TO CHANGE THE LAW TO STOP THIS, AND THEY HAVEN'T GONE ANYWHERE, THE WATER LAW.

WE'VE SEEN THE FIGHTING OVER WATER POLICY THE LAST FEW YEARS, AND THAT CONTINUES NOW.

THIS IS ONE COMPONENT OF IT, AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO STRIKE A DEAL ON ANY OF IT TO GET ANY OF IT PASSED.

TED: A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT, SENATOR RUBEN GALLEGO NOW, SEEMS LIKE HE'S THE NATION'S DARLING.

YOU CAN'T AVOID HIM AS FAR AS THE NATIONAL MEDIA IS CONCERNED.

HE'S DOING TOWN HALLS IN STATES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COUNTRY.

ARE WE LOOKING AT A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE?

>> I THINK HE'S JUST SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT POLICIES HE BELIEVES IN AND HE'S GOING TO CHAMPION, BUT IS CERTAINLY WIDELY SEEN AS HIM TESTING WATERS.

THIS SENATOR OF FOUR, FIVE MONTHS.

BUT HE'S GOT A GREAT BIOGRAPHY.

A LATINO, HE'S YOUNGER.

A LOT OF THINGS THAT SOMEWHAT DEMORALIZED PARTY COULD USE A PICKUP.

>> OF COURSE, HE'S FEELING A DRAFT, AS WE SAY.

THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WILL COME BACK TO BITE HIM.

KARI LAKE TRIED SOME OF THIS.

HIS DAD WAS RUNNING DRUGS FOR CARTELS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

HE TALKED ABOUT THAT.

TALKED ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE.

HE TALKED ABOUT WHY HE GOT DIVORCED.

HE TALKED ABOUT HIS PTSD FROM THE MIDDLE EAST AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

HE DOES HAVE A GOOD STORY.

IS HE PRIMETIME READY?

NO.

BUT WAS BARACK OBAMA PRIMETIME READY?

THAT'S THE COMPARISON.

TED: AND JIM, THAT OBVIOUSLY HE'S YOUNG, ENERGY, FUTURE OF THE PARTY AS OPPOSED TO LOOKING BACK.

SEEMS LIKE THE DEMOCRATS ARE LOOKING FOR.

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND I THINK YOU COULD DRAW THE OBAMA COMPARISON OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE.

WHAT WAS A WELL-REGARDED SPEECH AT THE DNC LAST YEAR, THAT WAS WHAT KIND OF LAUNCHED OBAMA FROM AN ILLINOIS SENATOR INTO KIND OF ONTO THE NATIONAL SCENE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AND SHAKE OUT.

THE DEMOCRATS HAVE SOUL-SEARCHING TO DO, AND ARE REALLY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DIRECTION THE PARTY IS GOING TO GO IN AND WHICH CANDIDATE IS THE ONE TO TAKE IT IN THAT DIRECTION.

TED: YOU HAVE A STAMPEDE AS FAR AS 2028 IS CONCERNED.

WE GOT TO STOP IT RIGHT THERE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.