♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," STATE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER JOHN KAVANAGH JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT I.C.E.

ACTIONS IN ARIZONA AND THE STATE'S RESPONSE TO THOSE ACTIONS.

>>> ALSO TONIGHT, WE'LL HEAR ABOUT A NEW DOCUMENTARY ON TWO BROTHER WHO HELPED INSPIRE THE ARIZONA TRAIL BY WALKING ACROSS THE STATE.

>>> AND BEST SELLING AND AWARD-WINNING NOVELIST KAREN ROUDA TALKS ABOUT HER NEW BOOK "WE WERE NEVER FRIENDS."

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE SENATE PASSED A RESOLUTION THAT FORMALLY CALLED FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES TO RESIGN DUE TO REMARKS REGARDING THE STAND YOUR GROUND LAWS THAT CRITICS SAY PUT I.C.E.

OFFICERS IN DANGER.

JOINING US IS SENATE MAJORITY LEADER JOHN KAVANAGH.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THIS RESOLUTION, OBVIOUSLY, IT'S NOT A LAW, NOT A BILL, CALLING FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO RESIGN.

GIVE ME THE REASON WHY HERE?

>> WELL, FIRST, SHE RETRACTS THE DANGEROUS MISLEADING INFORMATION THAT SHE STATED CONCERNING WHEN PEOPLE CAN USE FORCE, DEADLY FORCE, SHOOT POLICE OFFICERS.

SHE WAS DOING AN INTERVIEW ON ANOTHER STATION, AND THE ISSUE BECAME WHEN CAN PEOPLE USE DEADLY FORCE AGAINST COPS IN THE I.C.E.

SITUATIONS?

AND SHE BASICALLY SAID, IF THE OFFICERS ARE ONLY PARTIALLY OR NOT EASILY IDENTIFIABLE, WHICH JUST ISN'T TRUE, SHE TOOK THE USE OF FORCE LAW, WHICH IS COMPLICATED, LENGTHY, VERY NUANCED, AND SHE DISTILLED IT INTO A SOUND BITE AS PART OF A POLITICAL ANTI-I.C.E.

STATEMENT.

THE PERSON WHO WAS INTERVIEWING HER TWICE GAVE HER AN OPPORTUNITY TO REPHRASE OR REDO IT AND SHE REFUSED TO DO IT.

TED: SHE SAYS IT'S AN OUTRIGHT LIE THAT SHE SAID IT PUTS THEM IN DANGER.

>> THE PROBLEM, IS SHE MISSTATED THE LAW.

SHE HAS PEOPLE BELIEVE WHEN OFFICERS COME AT THEM IN PLAIN CLOTHES AND AREN'T PROPERLY IDENTIFIED, YOU CAN SHOOT THEM.

THAT'S A DANGER TO POLICE.

TED: IF YOU ARE NOT IDENTIFIED AS AN OFFICER, I DON'T KNOW YOU'RE AN OFFICER AND YOU ARE COMING AT ME AND I'M THREATENED AND I'M ARMED, WHAT DOES THE LAW SAY?

>> YOU CANNOT SHOOT SOMEBODY BECAUSE THEY'RE COMING AT YOU.

MOST OF THE TIME I.C.E.

OFFICERS ARE EASILY IDENTIFIED.

I WAS A DETECTIVE SERGEANT, WE DID NOT WEAR UNIFORMS WHEN WE LOCKED PEOPLE UP.

WE HAD OUR BADGE OUT.

UNDER THE MAYES INTERPRETATION, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT CLEARLY IDENTIFIED, PEOPLE CAN SHOOT US, THAT'S NOT TRUE.

TED: ISN'T THAT PART OF THE STAND YOUR GROUND LAW.

I'M TRYING TO GET CLEAR, YOU HAVE A GUY WHO'S EITHER COMING INTO YOUR HOME WITHOUT A WARNED, OR HE'S BREAKING DOWN YOUR CAR WINDOW OR DOING SOMETHING AGGRESSIVE TO THE POINT WHERE YOU FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE AND YOU ARE ARMED.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

STAND THERE AND TAKE IT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, SOMEBODY COMING AT YOU IS NOT JUSTIFICATION TO SHOOT THEM.

EVEN IF THEY LOOK MEAN.

TED: BUT WE'VE GONE PAST THAT.

>> THEY HAVE TO BE POINTING A GUN AT YOU.

THESE OFFICERS, BE THEY PLAINCLOTHES COPS, S.W.A.T.

TEAM MEMBERS OR I.C.E.

OFFICERS, THEY'RE EASILY IDENTIFIED.

ALL THE POLICE GROUPS AND SHERIFFS ASSOCIATIONS AGREE SHE MISSTATED THE LAW, SHE MISLED PEOPLE, AND WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THE TERM IGNORANCE OF A LAW IS NO EXCUSE APPLIES WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN BAD INFORMATION BY A PUBLIC OFFICIAL CHARGED WITH INTERPRETING THE LAW.

THAT'S WHAT SHE DID.

THESE PEOPLE CAN USE THIS IN A COURT IF THEY'RE ON TRIAL FOR MURDERING COPS.

TED: SHE SAYS SHE DOESN'T WANT MASKED AGENTS -- ARIZONANS DON'T WANT MASKED AGENTS ENTERING THEIR HOMES WITHOUT WARRANTS.

IF A MASKED AGENT ENTERED YOUR HOME WITHOUT A WARRANT, YOU DON'T KNOW IT'S AN AGENT, THERE'S NO WARRANT.

THEY ENTERED YOUR HOME WITHOUT AGREEMENT HERE, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

>> S.W.A.T.

TEAMS, LOCAL POLICE S.W.A.T.

TEAMS HAVE BEEN ENTERING HOMES WEARING MASKS FOR DECADES.

TED: BUT THEY'RE IDENTIFIED.

>> SO ARE THE I.C.E.

AGENTS, THEY'RE WEARING UNIFORMS, FATIGUES, RADIOS.

TED: SO YOU'RE SAYING SHE'S WRONG BECAUSE SHE SAYS THAT YOU CAN -- EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY AN I.C.E.

AGENT.

>> SHE SAID IF THEY WERE POORLY IDENTIFIED, WHICH IS THE PROBLEM, THAT'S SO SUBJECTIVE.

SHE LED PEOPLE BELIEVE TO, AND SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT I.C.E.

AGENTS, SHE LED PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN SHOOT THEM, AND EVEN THE LOCAL COPS WHO WEAR FACE COVERINGS SOMETIMES HAVE BEEN PUT AT RISK.

>> I THINK SHE WAS ALSO SAYING THAT THE LAW IS NOT CLEAR WHETHER YOU COULD SHOOT THEM BECAUSE IT'S A STAND YOUR GROUND LAW IN ARIZONA, NOT THE SAME IN MINNESOTA AND NEW YORK.

IT'S DIFFERENT HERE.

>> SHE TOTALLY CONFUSED THE LAW OF JUSTIFICATION, ONE SECTION OF THE LAW, WITH THE CASTLE DOCTRINE SAYS IF YOU ARE IN YOUR HOME AND JUSTIFIED BY THE OTHER SECTION, YOU DON'T HAVE TO RETREAT, BUT STAND YOUR GROUND, WHICH SAYS, IF THE OTHER SECTION OF LAW SAYS YOU CAN USE DEADLY FORCE, THEN OUTSIDE YOUR HOME, YOU ALSO DON'T HAVE TO -- SHE EVEN CONFUSED THE SECTIONS OF LAW, AND SHE IS THE HEAD ATTORNEY FOR THE STATE.

TED: SHE SAID THAT ACTIONS BY I.C.E.

SHE'S SEEN IN MINNESOTA, WE'VE ALL SEEN THE VIDEO, SHE CALLS THOSE UN-AMERICAN.

>> WHAT'S UN-AMERICAN ARE GOVERNORS OF STATES, MAYORS OF CITIES, VILIFYING I.C.E.

AGENTS, CALLING THEM GESTAPOS, NOT ARRESTING DEMONSTRATORS WHO HAVE STRUCK THEM, BLOW WHISTLES CREATE CHAOS.

TED: WHAT YOU SAW AND FROM VIDEOS IN MINNEAPOLIS, IS THAT AMERICAN OR UN-AMERICAN?

>> IT'S UN-AMERICAN WHEN PEOPLE RIOT AND OBSTRUCT POLICE OFFICERS.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

TED: YOU'RE SAYING THE OFFICER'S ACTIONS UP THERE WERE NOT UN-AMERICAN?

>> THE OFFICERS WERE SERVING JUDICIAL WARRANTS WHICH THEY'VE BEEN DOING AS FAR BACK AS THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

TED: YOU ARE SAYING SHE'S WRONG.

>> SHE'S WRONG.

TED: IT WILL TAKE YEARS, IF NOT DECADES TO UNDO THE DAMAGE DONE OVER THE PAST 12 MONTHS?

>> I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE SAME PROBLEMS IN ARIZONA AS IN THESE OTHER STATES.

THESE BLUE STATES.

FIRST OF ALL, OUR JAILS AND PRISONS COOPERATE WITH IMMIGRATION, AND THEY TELL I.C.E.

WHEN THEY'RE RELEASING ILLEGAL ALIENS WHO HAVE DEPORTATION ORDERS, SO THEY ARE PICKED UP SAFELY IN A DETENTION FACILITY, AND THESE OTHER STATES, THEY DON'T DO THAT, THAT'S WHY I.C.E.

IS FORCED TO GO IN THE STREET WHERE IT BECOMES VERY DANGEROUS.

>> I WANT TO MAKE SHOULD CLEAR, YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE SHOOTINGS IN MINNESOTA, THE ACTIONS BY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENTS IN MINNESOTA, THE TWO SHOOTINGS?

>> ONE.

TED: TWO.

>> I THOUGHT THERE WAS THE WOMAN WITH THE CAR, AND THE GUY PRETTI.

TED: THAT'S TWO.

>> THE WOMAN WASN'T SHOT IN THE CAR -- I'M SORRY, YOU'RE RIGHT.

TED: YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT?

>> NO, I'M NOT.

IF YOU TRIED TO OBSTRUCT AND BLOCK AN I.C.E.

VEHICLE, AND THEN YOU GET IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE AT THE OFFICER.

TED: THAT'S A CAPITAL OFFENSE.

>> YOU'RE ASKING FOR TROUBLE.

TED: THAT'S A CAPITAL OFFENSE.

>> I BELIEVE SINCE THE CAR WAS COMING AT THE OFFICER, THAT GAVE THE OFFICER A REASONABLE BELIEF HE WAS IN DANGER FOR HIS LIFE, AND THAT'S A JUSTIFIED USE OF FORCE.

TED: WHAT ABOUT A FIVE-YEAR-OLD BEING DETAINED?

>> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD, IS THAT THE FATHER WAS WITH THE FIVE-YEAR-OLD WHEN THEY CAME, THE FATHER RAN WAY, AND LEFT THE CHILD ALONE.

WHEN I.C.E.

TRIED TO GIVE THE CHILD TO THE MOTHER, SHE REFUSED.

I.C.E.

SHOULD NOT HAVE -- WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM TO DO, LEAVE THE KID ON THE STREET?

TED: THE DETAILS ARE STILL SKETCHY.

WHAT WE DO KNOW IS SAW A FIVE-YEAR-OLD BEING DETAINED BY I.C.E.

AGENTS HERE.

JUST THE MESSAGE ITSELF HAS TO BOTHER YOU.

>> I HAVE ARRESTED PEOPLE, WHEN I WAS A COP, WHEN THEY HAD KIDS WITH THEM.

WE TAKE THE CHILD INTO CUSTODY UNTIL -- WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO?

TED: YOU ARE NOT UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

>> I WOULD BE MORE UNCOMFORTABLE LETTING THE KID WANDER AWAY.

TED: HOW MUCH DO YOU APPRECIATE, UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU SEE PROTESTS AT THE CAPITOL, YOU SEE PROTESTS AROUND TOWN, WHEN WE HAD THE ZIPPS RAIDS WHICH WERE COURT ORDERED, VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE SWEEPS IN MINNESOTA.

STILL, WHEN YOU SEE SO MANY PEOPLE PROTESTING, SO MANY PEOPLE UPSET ABOUT THIS, CAN YOU APPRECIATE IT?

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND IT?

>> I APPRECIATE IT, BUT I THINK TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, CERTAIN POLITICIAN RECOGNIZE THAT CALLING I.C.E.

AGENTS GESTAPO.

I WAS ON A RADIO SHOW THREE MONTHS AGO WITH SECRETARY OF STATE ADRIAN FONTES, HE CALLED I.C.E.

AGENTS ARMED THUGS.

WHEN YOU DEMONIZE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS LIKE THAT, YOU ARE SETTING THE STAGE FOR PEOPLE TO OVERREACT TO THEM.

>> THE PRETTI SHOOTING, WERE THOSE ARMED OFFICER ACTING LIKE THUGS?

>> NO, AND I'LL TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED THERE.

PRETTI HAD 11 DAYS PREVIOUSLY, HE KICKED IN I.C.E.

VEHICLE'S REAR TAILLIGHT AND SPIT AT THEM.

HE WAS A PROVOCATIVE PERSON.

ON THE CURRENT OCCASION, HE WOUND UP GETTING INTO A FIGHT WITH POLICE.

HE BROUGHT A GUN TO A DEMONSTRATION WHERE HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO POSSIBLY BE IN A CONFRONTATION WITH POLICE.

HE WAS IN A CONFRONTATION, POLICE SAW THE GUN, NOW STRUGGLING WITH SOMEONE THEY KNOW IS ARMED, YOU HAVE TO BE CONCERNED THIS PERSON MIGHT CHUTE, AND AT SOME POINT CONFUSION AND CHAOS CREATED A SITUATION WHERE SOME COP THOUGHT HE WAS PULLING THE GUN.

TED: CAN IT BE ARGUED THAT ALL THAT EXPLAINATION, WOULD FOR SOME FOLKS, HAVING TO EXPLAIN TOO MUCH AND THESE OFFICERS, THE ONE WHO SHOT HIM ON THE GROUND, IN THE BACK, WERE ACTING LIKE THUGS?

>> THEY WEREN'T ACTING LIKE THUGS AND THE PERSON WHO HAS TO EXPLAIN TOO MUCH IS A.G.

KRIS MAYES BECAUSE HER ADVICE ON USE OF FORCE WAS WRONG, MISLEADING AND DANGEROUS TO COPS.

TED: LAST QUESTION, AS FAR AS LAW ENFORCEMENT IS CONCERNED OVERALL, LAW ENFORCEMENT REGARDING I.C.E., WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE DONE WITH THE ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS TO MAKE SURE THESE KINDS OF THINGS -- NO ONE WANTS TO CALL A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER A THUG.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ADRIAN FONTES, I DOUBT THAT'S WHAT HE WAKES UP IN THE MORNING LOOKING FORWARD TO DO.

SUPPORT LAW ENFORCEMENT, EVERYONE SUPPORTS LAW ENFORCEMENT.

EVERYONE WANTS LAWS ENFORCED.

HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN HERE WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

>> NUMBER ONE, OUR OFFICIALS DON'T VILIFY I.C.E.

I THINK HOMAN IS CORRECT, HE'S TRYING TO TONE EVERYTHING DOWN.

TELLING THE I.C.E.

OFFICERS WHEN PEOPLE TAUNT AND MOCK YOU, DON'T ANSWER THEM, THAT'S WHAT FUELS THE SITUATION.

SO STOP DEMONIZING THEM, DON'T GO AND BLOW WHISTLES IN THEIR FACE, DON'T GET IN THE WAY OF THEM LOCKING PEOPLE UP BECAUSE THAT'S ALL ILLEGAL AND THAT'S WHAT LEADS THE CHAOS THAT LEADS TO TRAGEDIES LIKE PEOPLE GETTING SHOT.

TED: SENATE MAJORITY LEADER JOHN KAVANAGH, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

.

TED: TRAILBLAZERS IS A NEW DOCUMENTARY THAT TELLS THE STORY OF TWO BROTHERS THAT INSPIRED THE ARIZONA TRAIL BY WALK THE LENGTH OF THE STATE IN 1982.

IT WILL KICK OFF THE ARIZONA TRAIL ASSOCIATION ENDOWMENT.

TO LEARN MORE, WE WELCOME MATT NELSON AND ROBERT STEVE, EDITOR OF ARIZONA HIGHWAYS, A PARTNER IN THE PROJECT.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

TED: A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT THE BROTHERS, WHO WERE THEY AND WHY DO THEY DECIDE TO WALK THE LENGTH OF THE STATE?

>> LONG STORY SHORT, YOU HAVE TO SEE THE FILM TO GET THE FULL STORY.

JUST LIKE SIR EDMOND HILLARY AND OTHERS, WHY DO YOU CLIMB EVEREST, UNDERTAKE THESE THINGS, THE ANSWER IS DEEP AND INDIVIDUAL.

AND FORTUNATELY, THERE'S A STORY NOW THAT WE CAN WATCH SO MANY YEARS LATER THAT HELP CAPTURE AND ANSWER THE QUESTION.

TED: WALKED FROM UTAH BORDER DOWN TO THE -- >> THEY WENT THE OTHER DIRECTION, STARTED IN MEXICO AND THE ROUTE THEY TOOK FOLLOWS A LOT OF THE ARIZONA TRAIL AS IT EXISTS TODAY BUT DETOURED THROUGH PRESCOTT.

AS MATT SAID, IT WAS AN TWENTIURE FOR THEM, BUT THEY WANTED TO WALK BACK IN TIME A LITTLE BIT.

THEY WANTED TO WALK IN THE FOOT STEPS OF NOT JUST THE PIONEERS BUT THE NATIVES WHO EXPLORED THIS LAND CENTURIES AGO.

TED: TOOK A COUPLE OF MULES AND LET'S GO?

>> TWO GUYS, COUPLE OF MULES, DOGS AND A GRAND ADVENTURE.

TED: HOW LONG DID IT TAKE?

>> A REALLY LONG TIME.

[LAUGHTER] >> TOOK THEM A COUPLE OF MONTHS, THE MULES WERE NOT IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN.

THEY STARTED FABRICATING THIS PLAN AND REALIZE THAT WATER WASN'T A RELIABLE SOURCE.

IT IS TODAY.

MATT AND HIS CREW HAVE A TRAIL BED.

IT'S MUCH EASIER.

THEY NEEDED TO CARRY THEIR WATER, SO THEY GOT THE TWO MULES.

>> THIS INSPIRED, IN GREAT SENSE, THE ARIZONA TRAIL.

WHAT IS THE ARIZONA TRAIL?

>> AMAZING RESOURCE, 800 MILES LONG THAT CONNECTS MEXICO TO UTAH THROUGH SOME OF ARIZONA'S MOST INCREDIBLE LANDSCAPES AND FOR 32 YEARS OUR ORGANIZATION IS COMMITTED TO BUILDING, PROTECTING AND MAINTAINING THIS 800-MILE TRAIL FOR ANYBODY TO ENJOY IT.

TED: DID I READ CORRECTLY.

ONE OF 11 NATIONAL SCENIC TRAILS?

JUST 11 IN THE COUNTRY.

>>.

>> PEOPLE BEEN THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL AND THE PACIFIC CREST TRAIL.

THE ARIZONA TRAIL IS AN EXCLUSIVE OPPORTUNITY FOR HIKERS.

>> HOW IS THE DOCUMENTARY PRODUCED?

THEY DIDN'T -- DID THEY TAKE A CAMERA OR WHAT?

>> A LOT OF 35 MILLIMETER FILM, BUT THEY WERE INTERVIEWED ON THE TRAIL, SO THERE WAS SOME FOOTAGE FROM THAT.

THEY'RE GREAT STORYTELLERS, INCREDIBLE FILM CREW THAT CREATED THIS DOCUMENTARY, SO IT'S A SPECTACULAR STORY.

IN FACT THESE GUYS PRESIDENT BUSH PITCHED IT TO ARIZONA HIGHWAYS AND MY PREDECESSORS WEREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO TAKE IT.

WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE IT IN THE FEBRUARY ISSUE.

TED: A CURRENT INTERVIEW WITH BRUCE BABBITT, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY IS IN IT AS WELL?

>> IT IS INCREDIBLE.

TENS OF THOUSAND OF PEOPLE HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE TRAIL AS IT IS.

TED: WHEN YOU'RE ON THE TRAIL, DO YOU KNOW YOU'RE ON THE TRAIL?

ARE THERE SIGNS OR MARKERS?

>> IT'S AN INCREDIBLY WELL-MARKED TRAIL.

I HAD THE PRIVILEGE WITH THE MAGAZINE TO HIKE ALL OVER THE STATE AND THE SEGMENTS ARE THE BEST.

THERE'S GREAT TRAILHEADS, EASY ACCESS, THE TRAIL RUNS FOR 800 MILES BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO 800, YOU CAN DO DIFFERENT SEGMENTS AND CAN YOU DO SEGMENTS OF SEGMENTS.

IT'S VERY WELL MARKED AND A GREAT WAY TO SEE OUR STATE.

THE OTHER WONDERFUL THING ABOUT IT, THE TOPOGRAPHY AND GEOLOGY AND GEOGRAPHY OF THE STATE IS SO DIFFERENT.

YOU GO FROM THE DESERT AND THE MOUNTAINS AND YOU HAVE TO CROSS THE GRAND CANYON.

TED: WOW, AS FAR AS THE ARIZONA TRAIL ASSOCIATION ENDOCUMENT.

WHAT IS THAT AND HOW DOES IT KICK THIS OFF?

>> WE'RE A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION AND RELY ON STATE, FEDERAL AND PRIVATE FUNDING FOR THE MOST PART.

STATE FUNDING IS HIT OR MISS, SAME WITH FEDERAL FUNDING, THE REALITY IS IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN AND PROTECT THE TRAIL INTO THE FUTURE.

WE NEED THE ENDOWMENT, A RELIABLE SOURCE SO A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE INVESTMENT BENEFITS TRAIL OPERATIONS.

>> ANY OTHER SCENIC TRAILS HAVE THIS?

>> THEY DO.

WE OFTENTIMES LEARN FROM THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL OR THE PACIFIC CREST TRAIL WHICH ARE MUCH OLDER, ALMOST 100 YEARS NOW.

THE ARIZONA TRAIL IS ONLY ABOUT 35 YEARS NOW.

TED: WOW.

WHEN THE PREMIERE HAPPENS, THERE IS A PANEL FOLLOWING THE DISCUSSION?

>> MATT AND I WILL BE THERE AND THE BROTHERS, NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE, WHICH THEY WILL GET A LOT OF QUESTIONS BUT TALKING ABOUT THE VALUE OF THIS TRAIL AND WHY IT'S SUCH A GREAT ASSET TO THE STATE OF ARIZONA AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE.

TED: LAST QUESTION HERE, WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE WHO WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY TO TAKE FROM THE FILM?

>> INSPIRATION TO GET OUT AND ENJOY NATURE.

WE HAVE SOME OF THE MOST INCREDIBLE LANDSCAPES ON EARTH WITHIN A SINGLE STATE AND INSPIRED THE ARIZONA TRAIL BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE THE GRAND CANYON AND SAGUARO NATIONAL PARK THAT DON'T EXIST ANYWHERE ELSE, AND THIS TRAIL CONNECTS THEM ALTOGETHER.

TED: WHAT DO YOU WANT FOLKS TO TAKE FROM THE FILM?

>> SAME THING, OUR MISSION IS TO GET PEOPLE OFF THE COUCH AND IT'S A MORE FORMAL MISSION STATEMENT.

WHEN YOU SCRAPE IT ALL AWAY, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT AND TRY TO TO IN THE MAGAZINE.

TED: ROBERT STIEVE AND MATT NELSON, THE NIM IS TRAILBLAZERS, AND THE GUILLENWATERS, WHERE ARE THEY RIGHT NOW?

>> THEY'RE IN THE AGUA PRIETE LIVING OFF THE LAND KIND OF THING.

TED: WALKING THE STATE WASN'T ENOUGH?

THEY'RE STILL DOING IT.

.

TED: A NEW NOVEL EXPLORES WHAT HAPPENS WHEN OLD SORORITY SISTERS REUNITE FOR A SUSPENSEFUL WEEKEND IN PALM SPRINGS.

THE BOOK IS TITLED "WE WERE NEVER FRIENDS," IT'S DESCRIBED AS BEING FULL OF DARK HUMOR AND BAD BEHAVIOR.

THE BOOK'S AUTHOR KARA ROUDA JOINS US NOW.

WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

TED: AND CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THIS IS OLD HAT FOR YOU.

HOW MANY BOOKS HAVE YOU WRITTEN?

>> GOTTEN TO BE A LOT AT THIS POINT.

THIS IS NUMBER 24.

TED: 24?

>> THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

TED: YOUR BOOKS ARE DESCRIBED AS DOMESTIC SUSPENSE, THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

>> IT DOES.

THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE SUBURBS AND HAS TO DO WITH FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS AND CLOSE RELATIONSHIPS, THAT'S WHERE THE DOMESTIC, IS DEFINITELY SUSPENSE.

TED: ARE THEY THRILLERS?

ARE THEY WHODUNITS?

>> THEY ARE THRILLERS.

TED: MORE THRILLERNESS THAT WHODUNITS?

>> THERE IS NOTHING REALLY TO SOLVE, YOU READ AND GO HOPEFULLY, OH, MY GOSH.

TED: THE KEY SEEMS IT'S PEOPLE WHO LIVE WHAT SEEM TO BE PERFECT LIVES AND CONFLICT OCCURS.

>> RIGHT.

AND AS WE ALL KNOW, PEOPLE CLOSEST TO US CAN SOMETIMES SURPRISE US.

A LOT OF MY BOOKS ARE MARNL RELATED.

I'VE BEEN MARRIED 35 YEARS.

TED: WOW.

>> HE'S NOT THE INSPIRATION.

THIS IS A GROUP OF FOUR CLOSE FRIENDS BUT NOT SO MUCH.

TED: WHEN IT'S PEOPLE AND THE CONFLICT ARRIVES, THAT STARK CONTRAST, DOES IT MAKE IT EASIER TO WRITE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> THE SETTINGS ARE FUN, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE A LOT OF EVERYTHING.

THESE PEOPLE ARE VISITING A SECOND HOME IN PALM SPRINGS, A VERY ELEGANT MANSION, IT IS FUN AS AN AUTHOR TO STOMP AROUND IN THOSE SETTINGS.

WHEN PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT PERFECTION BECAUSE WE KNOW PERFECTION IS AN ILLUSION.

WHEN PEOPLE ARE TOO CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, THAT'S WHERE ALL THE CONFLICT -- >> THE IMPERFECTION MAKES FOR A LOT OF FUN.

>> EXACTLY.

TED: WHAT GOT YOU STARTED, DID YOU ALWAYS WANT TO BE A WRITEER?

>> SINCE THIRD GRADE.

WE WERE MARRIED TO THE PERSON WE WANTED TO BE WHEN WE GREW UP.

I MARRIED ROBERT McCLOSKEY AND HE WROTE BACK AND SAID HE WAS AN ILLUSTRATOR, NOT AN AUTHOR, WRITE BETTER NEXT TIME.

HE WROTE BACK.

TED: EVERYTHING, A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO BE THINGS WHEN THEY'RE YOUNG, BUT EVENTUALLY THEY GO, WELL, I'M BETTER AT SOMETHING, WHEN DID YOU REALIZE YOU WERE GOT AT THIS?

>> I HAD A LOT OF CAREERS UP UNTIL NOW, I WAS A JOURNALIST AND MAGAZINE EDITOR AND MARKETING FOR A LOT OF YEARS, AND SO IT WAS ALWAYS IN THE BACK OF MY HEAD.

MY FIRST BOOK WAS A BUSINESS BOOK FOR WOMEN ENTREPRENEURS.

>> INTERESTING.

TED: SPEAKING AROUND THE COUNTRY AND TELLING WOMEN IT'S NEVER TOO LATE TO LIVE OUT YOUR DREAMS.

AND A WOMAN SAID HAVE YOU DONE IT?

HAVE YOU DONE EVERYTHING YOU WANTED TO DO?

I WROTE A NOVEL YOU.

>> WANTED TO BE DARREN STEVENS?

>> I DID.

WHICH IS SO STRANGE.

PEOPLE WATCHING BE WITCHED WANT TO BE SAMANTHA, THE WOMAN WITH THE MAGICAL POWERS.

TED: WHICH DARREN, THE FIRST OR THE SECOND ONE?

>> ANY ONE.

TED: WHEN YOU WRITE THE BOOK, DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN BEFORE HAND?

>> NO, WHICH IS SO FUN.

>> YOU DON'T?

>> NO.

I HAVE A CHARACTER, IN THIS CASE, I HAVE THE PROTAGONIST AND ROXY THE NEMESIS, I KNEW THOSE TWO WERE THERE AND BETH AND HER DAUGHTER ARE DRIVING TO THE REUNION BECAUSE HER DAUGHTER IS MARRYING ROXY'S SON AND PEOPLE STARTED APPEARING AS I'M WRITING.

TED: DO THEY SURPRISE YOU?

>> ALL THE TIME.

ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE DOING DEVIOUS THINGS.

SOMETIMES THEY SCARE ME.

I'LL BE IN MY OFFICE AND A CHARACTER WILL DO SOMETHING AND I HAVE TO SLAM THE LAPTOP.

TED: IF YOU ARE WRITING, DOES IT KEEP OUT EDGE OF YOUR SEAT?

>> IT DOES.

I KNOW IF IT SCARES ME, IT WILL HOPEFULLY SCARE YOU, TOO.

IT'S NOT THEY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO DO THAT, BUT THEY SOMETIMES DO SCARY THINGS.

>> 24 BOOKS, YOU GOT TO HAVE A PATTERN, IT'S GOT TO BE A LITTLE EASIER.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S EASIER, MAYBE A LITTLE MORE CONFIDENCE SITTING DOWN THAT YOU CAN DO IT AGAIN, BUT IT'S ALWAYS THE SAME.

EVERY BOOK IS A CHILD.

IT'S A NEW ADVENTURE.

TED: AND FIRST BOOK WAS NONFICTION.

>> YES.

TED: ISN'T THAT SOMETHING?

ARE YOU WRITING ONE NOW?

>> I AM, I AM.

CO-AUTHORING WITH TWO OTHER AUTHORS.

WE HAVE A PROGRAM CALLED THE KILLER AUTHOR CLUB EVERY TUESDAY AND STREAMS ON YouTube AND FACEBOOK AND ALL OF THAT, SO WE DECIDED TO COLLABORATE, WE'RE WRITING A BOOK TOGETHER RIGHT NOW.

TED: DOES HOLLYWOOD SHOW INTEREST IN THE 24 BOOKS?

>> I HOPE SO.

I HAVE A FILM OPTION FOR MY NOVEL "BENEATH THE SURFACE" THAT'S A FUTURE NOVEL.

TED: THAT'S EXCITING.

YOU ARE PREPARED TO SEE PEOPLE DOING THINGS WITH YOUR STORIES?

>> THEY CAN HAVE IT.

WHATEVER THEY'D LIKE TO DO.

TED: DID I READ YOU'RE GETTING OR RECEIVED A MASTERS FROM UC RIVERSIDE?

>> I'M WORKING ON IT RIGHT NOW.

TED: YOU ARE WORKING ON A MASTERS?

I THINK YOU ACCOMPLISHED IT.

A MASTERS IN WHAT?

>> FINE ARTS.

I FOUND A NOTE I HAD WRITTEN TO MYSELF A LONG TIME AGO, NUMBER FIVE ON THE LIST WAS GET YOUR MASTERS.

YOU STILL HAVEN'T DONE THAT.

IT'S SO FUN, FUN TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL AT THIS AGE.

TED: VERY ACTIVE LIFE, CONGRATULATIONS ON THAT, CONGRATULATIONS ON THE SUCCESS OF THE BOOKS AND THE NEW BOOK, AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

TED: YOU BET.

AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.