My name is Hannah Merchant and I am a Marine Corps veteran.

I loved the book Shooter.

It was eye opening and it was raw.

The pictures and the little tidbits that Stacy Pearsall writes in her story about combat experience was so heartfelt.

I'm Holly Jackson.

Join us as we bring you powerful stories from both new and established southern authors as we sit By The River.

♪ music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Major funding for By The River is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina.

For more than 40 years, the ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio.

Additional funding is provided by the USCB Center for the Arts, Osher Lifelong Learning Institute USCB and the Pat Conroy Literary Center.

Hi, I am Holly Jackson, host of By The River.

Thank you so much for joining us.

It is another beautiful day here at our Waterfront studio in Beaufort, South Carolina.

As part of our love letter to southern writing, we are bringing you powerful stories from both new and established southern authors.

And this season we are focusing on unexpected southern stories and writers and in today's case photographers too.

We are here with the author of Shooter Stacy Pearsall and Stacy, thank you so much for joining us.

This is an exciting one because we also have with us, a dog, almost asleep.

Gosh, man!

I already put him to sleep after just a few seconds.

We'll get to that in a minute.

But Stacy, thanks so much for making the trip here.

And I say author/photographer.

There are words.

There are photos.

Tell us a little bit about what this book's about and why it came to be.

Shooter is basically the book end to my military career.

I spent roughly 10 years as a military photographer and the latter part of my career as a combat photographer specifically which took me all over the world.

And on my last tour was Iraq, which was full of a lot of various experiences, some not so great.

And when I came home I kind of put the pictures away and tried to put the memories away, but I couldn't.

I found one way to help resolve.

part of that was to bring the pictures back up, kind of go through my journals that I had taken while I was in combat and sort of systematically and sort of methodically go through these pictures and put them together into a book.

that is basically a way for me to close that chapter of my life.

<Holly> Tell me the challenge there is, because you know me with TV, I'm used to video, those moving pictures but when you were talking still photography you're trying to tell a whole story in one frame.

Talk about the challenges of that and how you pick that one frame to tell the story.

<Stacy> Well, I think still photography can be a challenge just like you had articulated.

It's, you have to be able to tell everything in one frame and walking into situations where you don't have any control, combat being one of them.

For me, in this example Shooter, you have to be able to be situationally aware enough to not get yourself hurt or are those around you hurt, but situationally aware enough to know where the picture's going to take place where that action's going to take place.

Get out in front of it as much as you can and let the action kind of happen through it.

And be experienced enough with the camera to know all the fundamental stuff like the ISO, the F-stop the shutter speed and timing and moment and expression and color and light, and hope that all of those come together in that one, 1000th of a second.

<Holly> Right!

<Stacy> that you click the shutter.

<Holly> Wow, that's a lot.

There's some tough stuff in here to see.

Is there anything that you left out and if so, why?

<Stacy> Hmm, that's a great question.

I often get asked like what my favorite photographs are and honestly they're not in this book and they're not particularly great either.

I think I left those for the loved ones of the fallen.

And it's the pictures of those who sacrificed everything in war that I cherish most.

They are the last living pictures of these heroes.

And I think those are the ones that mean the most.

<Holly> Tell me about the therapeutic part of just picking the photos compiling the photos, putting them, you know figuring out where they're going to go and the stories the part of the story that you're going to share.

What did that do for you mentally, emotionally?

<Stacy> I think there were still some things that I hadn't really quite processed.

Part of that is acknowledging grief of sort of going through some of the unchecked emotions.

I think there's a lot of things that we tend to push down for the sake of getting through the day in combat, and a lot of those resurface and a lot of those for me personally, are tied to each and every still frame that you see in this book from the smell, the actions, the sounds, all of those are kind of attached to each picture and the feelings.

So, for me, going through my archives and saying, Okay.

This was important for me to share emotionally.

They may not be the best photos that I've taken, but for me there are emotions tied to them.

And a part of that was, again, acknowledging that, putting it into a book and again, book ending those.

And there's a lot of crying, I'm not going to lie.

<Holly> Yeah.

>> A lot of anger and just again, these emotions that had been unprocessed that were coming through when I was putting this book together.

<Holly> You know, you referenced something that I feel like so many people can identify with anybody who's been through trauma or some really intense moments of grief is when those things happen, you want to shut down and get it away, but in order to move forward you have to revisit.

And so do you really feel like going back to the pain helped...in a sense relieve the pain If that makes any sense, to move forward and kind of get - you don't ever get past it, but to move on in a sense?

<Stacy> Thanks for saying that cause so many people are like, well, you just need time to get over it.

And I'm like, you don't ever get over it.

<Holly> It's always there.

<Stacy> Yeah.

Yes.

For me it's, - it's like these pictures they'll live on forever.

Those emotions that go with those pictures are still there but the more I allow myself to feel them, the less overwhelming they become.

Now that's not to say that there are days that I don't get triggered and I can't control the emotions that come forward, but at least I kind of have the tools whether that's, whether that's through taking a long walk or hanging out with my horses or, you know, leaning on my service dog Charlie to help.

But I think acknowledging that, putting it to paper, letting myself feel are all parts of the healing and why that was so successful for me.

<Holly> Besides healing for yourself, who is this book written for?

Who do you think the, what's your target audience?

<Stacy> You know, it's, funny, cause when I started on Shooter it was never about a target audience.

It was about getting myself healthy or at least starting down the path.

And I didn't know just how therapeutic it would be for others particularly for those who've been to Iraq who went through the book and they were like, "Oh man!

This really resonates with me.

or this brought up a lot of feelings that I haven't felt in a long time.

It was also a tool for therapists, some of them to have this book on their table to allow some of the folks that they were working with through post-traumatic stress to be able to visualize and have a better visual understanding of what we went through and maybe perhaps the words that they couldn't find, the veterans that are working through these things, the words that they couldn't find were better articulated through pictures.

Now there are pictures and words in this book, but I think for some of us, pointy talkies can be a lot, a lot easier.

<Holly> Sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How often do you - it's been some time since you've put the book out.

How often do you go through it and do different emotions come back whenever you do?

>> It's funny you ask that cause I very rarely crack my book now because again, it was for me a book end.

I'm trying to not shut it out, but be at peace with it, and part of that is not, is not like bringing up the war again over and over again.

Now these pictures, I process a lot of those emotions.

They still live with me.

They're in my mind, in my brain, in my waking in my waking life and in my sleeping life.

They come in through my dreams, not always in the greatest times and not always happy moments for me in my sleep.

I think that's the worst time.

But in terms of the book, it used to give me tremors.

It's just thinking about the pictures and, and how they are.

Now I can pick up the book and, and say, okay, this was so and so - <Holly> You can talk through it.

<Stacy> and then we can talk.

Right.

Yeah.

So it it's helped a lot.

<Holly> This chapter, so to speak, of your life is over.

But what do you feel like your mission is?

Because in a sense it's, it's still with you.

You're still, you know, talking about veterans and working on a project right now, After Action, which will be on public television.

So why do you continue to live through something that does cause you pain?

<Stacy> Yeah...

I think for content like this that is difficult not only to look at but to talk about, the last thing we as those who've experienced it want to relay that to somebody we love or care about, because we don't want to traumatize you with what traumatizes us.

And I think it's important to have that dialogue so that you can you can better understand what keeps me up at night maybe why I'm kind of grouchy the next day or if I'm angry out of nowhere, maybe I'm not angry at you, but I'm angry at what's happening to me or something that triggered me.

So it's all about communication whether it's through pictures or words or or a conversation like we're having now.

<Holly> I think this conversation is so important because, you know we're talking about mental health and...so many people watching can identify, not exactly like you, but in some facet of their life.

So I think this is a great time to introduce Charlie.

<Stacy> Yeah!

<Holly> Wake up Charlie.

I know Charlie doesn't listen to me anywhere like he listens to you but tell us who Charlie is and what kind of how important he is, what his, his role is in your world.

<Stacy> Oh, stretch it out, Charlie.

Good boy.

Well, it was about 2017 and I was traveling a lot with the veterans portrait projects, which I had begun during my recovery phase after coming home for war.

And I was taking on a lot of stress, wasn't sleeping and wasn't processing a lot of things and was very guarded about telling people.

And in the meantime, I was overworking myself.

I had traumatic brain injury I was trying to work with and I had a grand mal seizure which was a wake up call and I knew I needed help.

So I applied for a service dog, got on the wait list and actually it was in 20, 2015 that I had applied.

Waited.

2017, Charlie and I got paired.

Yeah.

Good boy!

So Charlie does a number of tasks, probably more than I would ever need to help mitigate some of the things that I find hard to do when I'm having trauma side effects of traumatic brain injury.

<Holly> Okay.

<Stacy> So I get dizzy and I get vertigo.

So Charlie will help balance.

So I, he has a balance command.

He'll pick things up off the ground if I, if I'm too dizzy to bend over and get it, if I have a seizure he can go and ask somebody to get help for me.

He can retrieve my keys, my shoes.

He can go turn on light switches in the dark push and pull doors open and close.

He's fantastic.

One of them, <Holly> - I love the way I wish the camera could show how he's looking at you cause he's like, keep talking about me, keep talking about me.

He's enjoying that... just been a real miracle to your life, it seems like.

<Stacy> Yes.

I think the number one benefit that Charlie brings to me is reassurance and independence.

Prior to getting paired with him, I was, I had anxiety, not just about things I was going through with post-traumatic stress, but also about having another seizure in public, or having to rely too much on other people.

I have always been a very independent person and suddenly my disabilities were forcing me to stay at home for fear of having to ask for help.

And Charlie is, Charlie's my new battle buddy, for lack of better words.

And he doesn't - He's not judgmental.

He's always there when I need him.

And he has the sweetest face Can I have a kiss.

<Holly> He really does.

<Stacy> Thank you.

Okay.

Sit.

Good job.

<Holly> And follows commands so beautifully.

What I really love about the show is that we don't just talk about the book.

We talk about the author, what got you to the place that you are to write the book.

And I feel like viewers kind of become connected to that and, and become interested in the book.

There are more books and there's one that follows and another one that you're currently writing on.

Can you just kind of give us a little snapshot.

Gosh!

All these puns.

I'm really not meaning to (Stacy laughs) to tell us what those are about.

>> Well, let me frame that up for you.

<Holly> Oh yeah, good job.

<Stacy> So I have A "Photojournalist Field Guide: In The Trenches..." with me, Stacy Pearsall.

And it was a book that many particularly women asked for but those who are working in conflict zones or high risk environments behind the camera.

And it was just everything that I had learned over the years, things that I had gleaned from other combat photographers prior, all the way from the Korean War, Vietnam and to present day and just kind of relaying it all and putting it in a nice little package in one book and putting an emphasis on things that women face particularly, which was not addressed in so many other books like it.

And I felt that was really important.

I also am working on putting it all together about my life to date.

I know, I'm only 42, which seems ludicrous that I would work on an autobiography, but...it's <Holly> - But you've been through so much in a short time.

<Stacy> Yes, it's, and it's jam packed.

I'm even having to cut things out, which is kind of crazy.

But yeah, that's something that I'm working on now <Holly> and back to the therapeutic part I'm sure that getting that out too, <Stacy> Yeah.

<Holly> has been good for you.

Tell me about the people you've met along the way who have maybe read this book.

We talked about some of the veterans but have you made some relationships and connections with people because of the book?

<Stacy> Yes, actually.

So one of the soldiers that I served with was friends with another soldier.

I mean, you're in the military there's always this Kevin Bacon game where somebody's connected To somebody's who... <Holly> Right!

You're all connected somehow.

Sure.

<Stacy> Right.

One of the soldiers that is featured in this book was friends with another soldier's wife and she wanted to get the book for him as a gift.

And so she, she bought the book.

It turns out that she's a gold star wife, which means her which means her husband died.

<Holly> Okay.

>> In service.

He died in Afghanistan.

And she reached out to me and we got to talking and I told her like that I had struggled with connecting with the gold star wives of the soldiers that I knew that we lost in Iraq.

And so through this book and this offhanded connection she and I began this relationship, perfect strangers and talking about how I could resolve that part of this undealt thing in my life.

<Holly> Right.

Sure.

>> And she gave me the strength to begin to reach out to the gold star wives and make a connection.

Actually, I made pretty good relationships with with most of them in the intervening years after that.

So, I'm still very good friends with this particular gal too.

<Holly> Very good.

Very good.

All right.

Talk about, you said that people ask you that what is your favorite picture?

Now as a former news reporter, that's always hard when somebody says, what's your favorite story?

Like, you got to, we got to go down like, you know my favorite funny story, my favorite tough story, whatever.

So I know that's a hard question, to answer to bring it down to one, but let's, let's show some that really stand out.

Is there a page number that you remember or anything that you think we can particularly talk to?

<Stacy> ...I'm just going to steal this for a minute.

<Holly> And what age...?

You said you're 42 now.

You kind of got a baby face in these pictures.

How old are we?

<Stacy> Well, I'm 27 on my last deployment.

<Holly> 27, Okay.

<Stacy> Yep.

<Holly> Okay, so these pictures were your feature.

That's about, you're in your late 20s.

<Stacy> So, I'll give a back story on this particular picture.

<Holly> Okay.

<Stacy> We were out on a routine patrol, passing out candy and clothing, soccer balls to some of the youth in the area just winning hearts and minds.

<Holly> Sure.

>> Is what they called it.

But we ended up getting attacked by some of the insurgents and got into like face-to-face firefight with them.

And I was up doing my job taking pictures and one of the bullets ricocheted off a wall and hit this soldier right in the groin.

And all the other soldiers were pretty busy engaging the enemy.

So I put my camera down and started to render first aid.

And so he's off to the side and he's standing up bleeding from the wound in his groin.

And I'm there treating him.

Well, back about a block is somebody from the BBC taking pictures from the UK and the next thing I know there's video of me rendering aid to a soldier.

<Holly> Oh dear.

>> And it's a very, very, it looks bad.

<Holly> Right.

>> It looks bad.

But anyway.

<Holly> That's one story.

<Stacy>... brevity.

Something that we have in combat.

Things you can laugh at.

<Holly> Yeah.

<Stacy> It just - Let that sink in.

That should, you should chuckle a little bit.

But anyway, we came back.

He was fine.

Luckily it was, like I said, it was just a ricochet.

He got a laceration, bled a little bit, but he lived but he came home, smoked a cigarette.

Glad that he still had all of his parts.

<Holly> Yes.

One, one little story for you.

<Holly> I'm glad, I'm glad we have some humor here.

Okay.

And so how about any connection with anyone featured in here?

Do you?

<Stacy> Every one of them.

<Holly> Okay.

So, so I mean, I'm saying still today like do they know that they're in the book?

<Stacy> Yes, yes.

<Holly> Okay.

<Stacy> Yes.

<Holly> Talk about that part.

<Stacy> Well this particular soldier right here was the one I was talking about.

whose friend's wife reached out to me and got that conversation started.

You're actually on a page right there.

This group on the left hand side.

<Holly> I love this by the way.

<Stacy> Yeah.

We're all sitting around having lunch with Iraqi soldiers and a military transition team during a patrol.

<Holly> Okay.

<Stacy> And in that picture, my video partner is sitting there eating alongside many friends that I still am in close contact with today.

One of them is an Iraqi National who he was born in Iraq and was our translator during that deployment.

He eventually sought asylum in the US is now a US citizen and serves in the army.

He was on my show, After Action, as well.

<Holly> Nice.

How would you sum up your time if you had to, you know just kind of give someone the 15 second rundown of your experience overall and what it was for you, how would you describe it?

(silence) <Stacy> If I could simmer it down, it would be 50 minutes of boredom, punctured by 10 minutes of shear terror.

(silence) <Holly> Wow.

(pages These are good.

How many pictures do you think you took a day?

I know in the end I had about 500,000 images that I've taken.

<Holly> 500,000.

<Stacy> Yeah.

<Holly> And we're talking about a of how long <Stacy> My time at combat?

Well, maybe a combat camera may have been a little bit more than that, but my combat deployments around roughly 500,000.

<Holly> Okay.

And to bring it down, you know, the book's pretty thick, but whenever you give me that number of images, how do you bring it down to that to tell the story?

How did you decide what makes the cut?

<Stacy> Well, luckily, this was just one deployment so that made it a little easier.

<Holly> Sure.

<Stacy> And I, and again I think I wanted to, share a certain, I guess part of that life and wanted to make, to make people know that it wasn't just about the times that the bullets were flying.

Yes.

Combat is bullets flying.

It is that 10 minutes of sheer terror but there is the 50 minutes where you bond with perfect strangers.

You put your life in their hands and they put theirs in yours.

And those times are filled with laughter, with grief with the mundane.

And those moments, I feel are lost on the majority of people because it's those moments that bind us so tightly together that we would fall on our own sword to save another person's life.

<Holly> And Stacy, we've talked about so much during the show about mental health and about, you know therapy and healing and PTSD.

These are things that aren't always talked about... in this field.

Do you feel like it's part of your mission to to make that commonplace to speak of it?

And if so, why?

>> Absolutely!

And I think it all starts with my own experience because when I came home after getting injured in Iraq I had a lot of things emotionally that I hadn't dealt with yet.

And that was delaying my ability to physically heal from my injuries.

And it always baffles me why it's so taboo to talk about mental health in the first place because we will openly talk about what ails us physically but that it stops there when it comes to emotions.

But we all have something emotional that we've gone through in life, whether that's postpartum after giving birth, or perhaps we lost a loved one or an animal we care about that touches us emotionally.

And maybe we have a hard time recuperating from that.

So why not have the tools to be able to talk about it?

And you know, at some point we have to be able to express that whether that's through words, pictures, conversations or finding ways to help ourselves find the tools to carry that with us in a way that it's not going to burden us so much that we end our lives, because I want to talk about suicide for a second.

I recently lost a fellow combat photographer and friend to suicide.

And that was just on the heels of another combat photographer friend of mine who killed herself.

At some point, it has to stop.

And we can't do that unless we talk about it openly.

And we can't do that unless we support each other in having those uncomfortable conversations.

So it all starts with this, talking.

<Holly> Stacy Pearsall, thank you so much for sharing this story.

It's so important we're talking about the book Shooter a compilation of images and short stories that go along with those.

So we appreciate you coming for By The River.

And thank you all for coming and sitting down with us, for this episode of By the River.

I'm your host, Holly Jackson.

We'll see you next time.

♪ music ♪ Major funding for By the River is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina.

For more than 40 years, the ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio.

Additional funding is provided by the USCB Center for the Arts, Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USCB, and the Pat Conroy Literary Center.

♪