"AMANPOUR & CO." HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.

ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, THE POWER AND THE PERIL.

ARE PEOPLE PLAYING WITH FIRE?

>> ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

>> LEADERS IN THEIR FIELD UNPACK THE CERTAINTY THAT LIES AHEAD.

>> WE HAVE -- I WANT TO DIVORCE THAT HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO WITH THE REALITY.

WE DECIDE.

>> WHAT IT MEANS FOR JOBS AND HOW IT WILL CHANGE OUR WORKING LIVES.

>> I BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO GET A FOUR-DAY WEEK OUT OF AI.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE THERE WILL BE A UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME?

>> IT'S TIME TO START THINKING ABOUT IDEAS LIKE THAT.

>> THIS HOUR -- >> WE CAN CALL THE 2024 PRESIDENTIAL RACE FOR JOE BIDEN.

>> POLICING MISINFORMATION AHEAD OF CRUCIAL U.S.

ELECTIONS.

>> I HAVE TWO CHILDREN.

ARE THEY GOING TO GROW UP WHERE THEY CAN TRUST INFORMATION?

>> HOW TO REGULATE A TECHNOLOGY THAT EVEN ITS CREATORS DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND.

>> IF THIS TECHNOLOGY GOES WRONG, IT CAN GO QUITE WRONG.

>> WHEN LOOKING AT CEOs OR PEOPLE OF POWER, WATCH THE HANDS, NOT THE MOUTH.

>> HOW AI COULD REVOLUTIONIZE HEALTH CARE.

>> THE LIFE SAVING OPPORTUNITIES.

>> MAKE OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH MACHINES MUCH MORE INTIMATE.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO RELATIONSHIPS, IN PARTICULAR SEXUAL, IT GETS VERY WEIRD VERY QUICKLY.

>> WE DISCUSS HOW TO KEEP REAL JOURNALISTS IN THE GAME.

>> THIS IS JUST THE FIRST GENERATION OF I WANT TO SAY THIS WOMAN, BUT IT'S NOT.

>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY, CANDICE KING WEIR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAUSS, MARK J BLESHNER.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

WE TRY TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT, TO NOT MISS WHAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF US, AT MUTUAL OF AMERICA, WE BELIEVE TAKING CARE OF TOMORROW CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE MOST OF TODAY.

MUTUAL OF AMERICA FINANCIAL GROUP, RETIREMENT SERVICES AND INVESTMENTS.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

WHETHER AI MAKES OUR SOCIETY MORE OR LESS EQUITABLE, UNLOCKS BREAKTHROUGHS OR BECOMES A TOOL OF AUTHORITARIANS IS UP TO US.

THAT IS THE WARNING AND THE CALL TO ARMS FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THIS WEEK.

IN A JOINT OP-ED THE SECRETARIES OF STATE AND COMMERCE SAY THE KEY TO SHAPING THE FUTURE OF AI IS TO ACT QUICKLY AND COLLECTIVELY.

IN A FEW SHORT MONTHS, THE POWER AND THE PERIL OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAVE BECOME THE FOCUS OF HUGE PUBLIC DEBATE.

THE CONVERSATION COULDN'T BE MORE RELEVANT AS THE ATOMIC BIOPIC "OPPENHEIMER" REMINDS US.

>> ARE WE SAYING THERE'S A CHANCE WHEN WE PUSH THAT BUTTON WE DESTROY THE WORLD?

>> CHANCES ARE.

>> THE DIRECTOR SAYS LEADING AI RESEARCHERS LITERALLY REFER TO THIS AS THEIR OPPENHEIMER MOMENT.

PREDICTIONS RANGE FROM THE CURES FOR MOST CANCER TO POSSIBLY THE END OF HUMANITY AS WE KNOW IT.

WHAT MOST PEOPLE AGREE ON THOUGH IS THE NEED FOR GOVERNMENTS TO CATCH UP NOW.

TO ASSESS ALL OF THIS AND TO SEPARATE THE HYSTERIA AND HYPERBOLE FROM FACTS, WE BROUGHT TOGETHER A PANEL OF LEADERS IN THE FIELD OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

NINA SHICK, COMPUTER SCIENCE PROFESSOR DAME WENDY HALL, CONNOR LEAHY, THE CEO OF CONJECTURE, AND THE CEO OF CENTURY TECH.

WELCOME ALL OF YOU TO THIS CHAT, TO COIN A PHRASE.

IT'S SUCH A MASSIVELY IMPORTANT ISSUE.

I THOUGHT I WOULD START BY ANNOUNCING WHEN I HAD MY MORNING COFFEE, AI IS ALL OVER THIS PAGE, ON THE GOOD, ON THE BAD, ON THE QUESTIONS, ON THE INDIFFERENCE.

WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS FROM EACH ONE OF YOU LITERALLY IS WHAT KEEPS YOU UP AT NIGHT.

YOU ARE THE EXPERTS.

FOR GOOD OR FOR BAD.

I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU.

>> WE CAN CONCEIVE OF IT AS US BEING NOW ON THE CUSP, I THINK, OF A PROFOUND CHANGE IN OUR RELATIONSHIP TO MACHINES THAT'S GOING TO TRANSFORM THE WAY WE LIVE, WORK, EVEN TRANSFORM OUR EXPERIENCE OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN.

THAT'S HOW SEISMIC THIS IS.

IF YOU CONSIDER THE EXPONENTIAL TECHNOLOIES OF THE PAST 30 YEARS, FROM THE INTERNET TO CLOUD TO THE SMARTPHONE, IT'S ALL ABOUT BUILDING A DIGITAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND ECOSYSTEM, WHICH IS A FUNDAMENTAL TENENT OF LIFE.

AI TAKES IT FURTHER.

WITH AI AND IN PARTICULAR GENERATIVE AI, WHICH IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING AND TRACKING, YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE INFORMATION REVOLUTION BECOMING AN INTELLIGENCE REVOLUTION.

THESE ARE MACHINES THAT ARE NOW CAPABLE OF DOING THINGS THAT WE THOUGHT WERE ONLY UNIQUE TO HUMAN CREATIVITY AND HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.

THE IMPACT OF THIS AS A WHOLE FOR THE LABOR MARKET, FOR THE WAY WE WORK, FOR THE WAY THAT -- THE FRAMEWORK OF SOCIETY UNFOLDS IS JUST SO IMPORTANT.

MY BACKGROUND IS GEOPOLITICS WHERE I ADVISE.

THE REASON I BECAME INTERESTED IN AI IS NOT BECAUSE I HAVE A TECH BACKGROUND.

I HAVE A BACKGROUND ASSESSING TRENDS FORSTORY FOR HUMANITY AND HOW WE DECIDE THIS TECHNOLOGY IS GOING TO UNFOLD IN OUR COMPANIES, WITHIN ENTERPRISE, VERY EXCITING, BUT ALSO SOCIETY.

THE FINAL THING IS, WE HAVE AGENCY.

A LOT OF THE DEBATE HAS BEEN ABOUT AI AUTONOMOUSLY TAKING OVER.

I WANT TO DIVORCE THAT HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO WITH THE REALITY.

THAT IS, WE DECIDE.

>> CONNOR, YOU BELIEVE -- WE HAVE SPOKEN BEFORE -- THAT THESE MACHINES ARE GOING TO BE SO POWERFUL AND SO UNABLE TO CONTROL BY HUMAN INPUT THAT THEY ACTUALLY COULD TAKE OVER.

>> UNFORTUNATELY, I DO THINK THIS IS A POSSIBILITY.

I EXPECT IT.

I WOULD LIKE TO AGREE WITH NINA THAT WE HAVE AGENCY.

THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN.

YOU ASKED THE QUESTION EARLIER, WHAT KEEPS ME UP AT NIGHT.

WHAT KEEPS ME UP AT NIGHT IS A COUPLE MILLION YEARS AGO, THE COMMON ANCESTOR SPLIT INTO TWO SUBSPECIES.

ONE DEVELOPED A LARGER BRAIN THAN THE OTHER.

ONE GOES TO THE MOON AND BUILDS NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

ONE DOESN'T.

ONE IS AT THE COMPLETE MERCY OF THE OTHER.

ONE OF THEM HAS FULL CONTROL.

I THINK THIS KIND OF RELATIONSHIP TO TECHNOLOGY CAN HAPPEN.

I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T.

UNLESS WE TAKE OUR AGENCY, WE SEE THAT WE ARE IN CONTROL, WE ARE BUILDING THE TECHNOLOGIES AND AS SOCIETY WE DECIDE TO GO A DIFFERENT PATH.

>> TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, THE SAME QUESTION TO YOU BUT FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF HOW DO WE HAVE AGENCY, EXPRESS AGENCY AND REGULATE?

YOU ARE A PRIVATE ENTREPRENEUR.

YOU HAVE BEEN ON THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT'S REGULATION COUNCIL.

DIVERSITY, AGENCY AND THAT THE MACHINES DON'T TAKE OVER?

>> WHAT IT TAKES TO ENSURE THAT IS, IT'S A LOT OF WORK.

THERE'S LOTS OF IDEAS, THEORIES.

THERE ARE WHITE PAPERS.

THERE'S A PRO-INNOVATION REGULATION REVIEW I WORKED ON IN THE UK.

THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN ISSUING GUIDANCE.

THE EU IS ISSUING ITS OWN LAWS AND GUIDANCE.

WE WANT TO SEE EXECUTION.

ON WHAT KEEPS YOU UP AT NIGHT, I FEEL SORRY FOR MY HUSBAND.

WHAT KEEPS ME UP IS OTHER ISSUES SUCH AS THINGS LIKE DISINFORMATION WITH GENERATIVE AI.

I HAVE TWO CHILDREN.

ARE THEY GOING TO GROW UP WHY A WORLD WHERE THEY CAN TRUST INFORMATION AND WHAT'S OUT THERE?

ARE THESE TECHNOLOGIES, BECAUSE OF LACK OF EXECUTION, ON THE SIDE OF POLICYMAKERS, MEANS THAT IT'S A FREE-FOR-ALL.

BAD ACTORS HAVE ACCESS TO THIS TECHNOLOGY.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO TRUST.

THE BIGGEST THING IS A FLIP FROM WHAT WE HEARD HERE.

ARE WE AS A HUMAN RACE, ARE WE GOING TO BENEFIT FROM THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE ENABLES?

WE OFTEN TALK -- FORGIVE ME, BUT FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS IT HAS BEEN ABOUT CHATGPT.

THAT'S WHERE THE DISCUSSION SHOULD BE PLACED.

BUT WE HAVE TRADITIONAL AI.

WE HAVE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WHERE WE HAVE BEEN USING DATA, WE HAVE BEEN CLASSIFYING, PREDICTING, LOOKING AT SCANS AND SPOTTING CANCER WHERE WE THOUGHT A LACK OF RADIOLOGISTS -- WE CAN AUGMENT TEACHING AND LEARNING.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO ENSURE THAT ALL AROUND SOCIETY WE DON'T EXACERBATE THE DIGITAL DIVIDE BUT WE LEVERAGE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE FOR THE BEST IT CAN PROVIDE TO HELP US IN HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION, SECURITY?

IT'S SCARY TO THINK WE'RE NOT USING IT TO ITS FULL ADVANTAGE, WHILE WE ALSO MUST FOCUS ON THE RISK AND CONCERNS.

I HAVE THIS -- I FEEL SORRY FOR MY HUSBAND, BECAUSE I'M TAPPING ON HIS SHOULDER, WHAT ABOUT THIS, WHAT ABOUT THAT.

>> WE NEED MANY DIFFERENT VOICES HELPING US BUILD AND DESIGN THESE SYSTEMS AND MAKE SURE THEY'RE SAFE.

NOT JUST THE TECHNICAL TEAMS THAT ARE WORKING AT THE COMPANIES TO BUILD THE AI, TALKING TO THE GOVERNMENT ABOUT WE NEED WOMEN, WE NEED AGE RANGE, WE NEED DIVERSITY FROM DIFFERENT SUBJECT AREAS, WE NEED LOTS OF DIFFERENT VOICES.

THAT'S WHAT KEEPS ME AWAKE AT NIGHT.

>> IF NOT, WHAT IS IT?

WHAT'S THE OPTION?

>> IT'S MORE LIKELY TO GO FOR USE FOR THE HOME.

YOU HAVEN'T GOT SOCIETY REPRESENTED IN DESIGNING THE SYSTEMS.

>> YOU ARE CONCERNED IT IS JUST ONE SEGMENT OF SOCIETY?

>> ONE SMALL SEGMENT OF SOCIETY.

WE CALL THEM -- I LIKE TO CALL THEM THE TECH PROS.

THEY ARE MOSTLY MEN.

VERY FEW WOMEN ACTUALLY WORKING IN THESE COMPANIES AT THE CUTTING EDGE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING.

YOU SAW THE CEOs AND VICE PRESIDENTS WITH BIDEN AND WITH RISHI SUNAK.

THESE ARE THE VOICES THAT ARE DOMINATING.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE WHOLE OF SOCIETY IS REFLECTED IN THE DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT OF THESE SYSTEMS.

>> BEFORE I TURN TO YOU FOR MORE INPUT, I WANT TO QUOTE FROM DOUGLAS HOFSTADTER WHO IS QUOTED ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE HIGHLIGHTED, THAT CHATGPT AND GENERATIVE HAVE TAKEN OVER THE CONVERSATION.

HE SAYS, IT RENDERS HUMANITY A SMALL PHENOMENON COMPARED TO SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS FAR MORE INTELLIGENT AND WILL BECOME INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO US AS INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO US AS WE ARE TO COCKROACHES.

A LITTLE LIKE WHAT YOU SAID.

I SEE YOU WANT TO DIVE IN, WENDY, WITH COMMENT.

>> I JUST -- I'D LIKE TO DISAGREE.

I THINK IF WE MOVE TOO FAST, WE COULD GET IT WRONG.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY, WHEN IT STARTED, THERE WERE NO ROADS.

SOMEONE HAD TO WALK IN FRONT OF A CAR WITH A LAMP, WHICH SHOWS HOW FAST THEY WERE GOING.

IF WE TRIED TO REGULATE THE AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY THEN, WE WOULDN'T HAVE GOT VERY FAR.

WE COULDN'T SEE WHAT WAS GOING TO BE COMING IN ANOTHER 100 YEARS.

WE HAVE TO MOVE VERY FAST TO DEAL WITH THE THINGS THAT ARE IMMEDIATE THREATS.

I THINK THE DISINFORMATION, THE FAKE NEWS, WE HAVE TWO MAJOR ELECTIONS, THE U.S. PRESIDENT AND OUR ELECTION HERE, WHENEVER IT IS, COULD BE AT THE SAME TIME.

THERE ARE OTHER ELECTIONS.

THE DISINFORMATION, THE FAKE NEWS, THE PUFFER JACKET MOMENT, THESE COULD REALLY MESS UP THESE ELECTIONS.

I THINK THERE'S A THREAT TO DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

I BELIEVE WE SHOULD TACKLE THOSE SORTS OF THINGS AT A FAST SPEED AND THEN GET THE GLOBAL REGULATION OF AI AS IT PROGRESSES THROUGH THE DIFFERENT GENERATIONS OF AI AND GET THAT RIGHT AT THE GLOBAL LEVEL.

>> I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

SHE'S BRINGING UP AS THE MOST EXISTENTIAL THREAT BEYOND THE ELIMINATION OF THE SPECIES, THE SURVIVAL OF THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS AND THE PROCESS OF TRUTH.

>> YES.

>> LET ME FAST FORWARD TO OUR SEGMENT OR DEEP FAKES.

AS WE KNOW, IT'S A TERM WE GIVE VIDEO, AUDIO, THAT'S BEEN EDITED USING AN ALGORITHM TO REPLACE THE ORIGINAL PERSON WITH THE APPEARANCE OF AUTHENTICITY.

THERE WAS THIS IMAGE OF AN EXPLOSION AT THE PENTAGON WHICH WAS FAKE.

IT WENT AROUND THE WORLD VIRALLY.

IT CAUSED MARKETS TO DROP BEFORE PEOPLE REALIZED IT WAS BOGUS.

WE KNOW THAT FOR INSTANCE THAT USING IT IN THE UNITED STATES IN ELECTIONS RIGHT NOW -- I'M GOING TO RUN A SOUND BITE FROM A PODCAST CALLED POD SAVE AMERICA, WHERE THEY AS A JOKE BASICALLY SIMULATED JOE BIDEN'S VOICE, BECAUSE THEY COULD NEVER GET HIM ON THE SHOW AND THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD MAKE A JOKE AND SEE IF IT PUT A BIT OF FIRE UNDERNEATH.

LISTEN TO THIS.

>> FRIENDS OF THE POD, IT'S JOE BIDEN.

LOOK, I KNOW YOU HAVEN'T HEARD FROM ME IN A WHILE.

THERE'S RUMBLINGS BECAUSE IT'S LINGERING HARD FEELINGS FROM THE PRIMARY.

DID JOE BIDEN LIKE IT WHEN LOVETT SAID HE HAD A BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING POWERBALL THAN I DID OF BECOMING PRESIDENT?

>> THAT WAS A JOKE.

THEY ARE LAUGHING.

ONE OF THE GUYS, A FORMER WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN, BASICALLY SAID THEY THOUGHT IT WAS FUN BUT ENDED UP THINKING, OH, GOD, THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIG PROBLEM.

ARE PEOPLE PLAYING WITH FIRE, CONNOR?

>> ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE AVAILABLE.

YOU CAN GO ONLINE RIGHT NOW AND YOU CAN FIND OPEN SOURCE CODE THAT YOU CAN DOWNLOAD, PLACE WITH IT, TAKE 15 SECONDS OF AUDIO FROM ANY PERSON'S VOICE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT AND MAKE THEM SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT.

CALL THEIR GRANDPARENTS IN THEIR VOICE, YOU CAN ASK FOR MONEY, PUT IT ON TWITTER.

THIS IS POSSIBLE AND BEING EXPLOITED BY CRIMINALS.

>> BY CRIMINALS.

>> I WROTE THE BOOK ON DEEP FAKES A FEW YEARS AGO.

I STARTED TRACKING DEEP FAKES, WHICH I CALLED THE FIRST VIRAL FORM OF GENERATIVE AI IN 2017 WHEN THEY STARTED EMERGING.

NO SURPRISE, BUT WHEN IT BECAME POSSIBLE FOR AI TO MOVE BEYOND ITS TRADITIONAL CAPABILITIES TO ACTUALLY GENERATE OR CREATE NEW DATA, INCLUDING VISUAL MEDIA OR AUDIO, IT HAS THIS ASTONISHING ABILITY TO CLONE BIOMETRICS.

JUST LIKE WITH THE INTERNET PORNOGRAPHY PRESENTED AS ON THE CUTTING EDGE.

WHEN I WROTE MY BOOK -- AT THE TIME, I WAS ADVISING GLOBAL LEADERS, INCLUDING THE NATO SECRETARY GENERAL AND JOE BIDEN, WE WERE LOOKING AT IT IN THE CONTEXT OF ELECTION INTERFERENCE.

IN THE CONTEXT OF INFORMATION INTEGRITY.

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A FEW YEARS.

OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS -- >> RIGHT.

BUT THAT'S THE POINT.

THIS IS THE POINT, JUST LIKE SOCIAL MEDIA, ALL OF THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON.

UNTIL IT ALMOST TAKES OVER.

>> THE GOOD THING IS THAT THERE IS AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY WORKING ON SOLUTIONS.

I HAVE BEEN PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY THAT'S PIONEERING CONTENT AUTHENTICITY.

IT'S NOT ONLY THAT AI WILL BE USED TO CREATE MALICIOUS CONTENT.

IF YOU ACCEPT MY THESIS THAT AI INCREASINGLY IS GOING TO BE USED ALMOST AS A COMBUSTION ENGINE FOR ALL HUMAN CREATIVE AND INTELLIGENT WORK, WE ARE LOOKING AT A FUTURE FOR MOST INFORMATION AND CONTENT WE SENIOR LINE HAS SOME ELEMENT OF AI GENERATION WITHIN IT.

IF YOU TRY TO DETECT EVERYTHING THAT'S GENERATED BY AI, IT'S A FALSE ONUS.

YOU HAVE AN INDELIBLE -- IT'S MORE THAN A WATERMARK, BECAUSE IT CAN'T BE REMOVED, SIGNAL IN THE DNA OF THE CONTENT AND INFORMATION TO SHOW ITS ORIGIN.

>> THE GOOD HOUSEKEEPING SEAL OF APPROVAL.

>> CREATING A SAFE ECOSYSTEM TO ENSURE -- >> LET'S PLAY THIS.

MAYBE THIS WILL SPARK A LITTLE MORE ON THIS.

THIS IS THE OPPOSITE END OF THE DEMOCRATIC JOKE WE SAW.

THIS IS FROM AN ACTUAL REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE, SERIOUS, YOU KNOW, FAKE.

>> THIS JUST IN.

WE CAN CALL THE 2024 PRESIDENTIAL RACE FOR JOE BIDEN.

>> MY FELLOW AMERICANS.

>> THIS MORNING, AN EMBOLDENED CHINA INVADES TAIWAN.

>> FINANCIAL MARKETS ARE IN FREE FALL.

500 REGIONAL BANKS HAVE SHUTTERED THEIR DOORS.

BORDER AGENTS WERE OVERRUN.

>> OFFICIALS CLOSED SAN FRANCISCO THIS MORNING CITING THE CRIME AND FENTANYL CRISIS.

>> THAT WAS A REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE AD.

THE REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST FRANK LUTZ SAID THIS, THANKS TO AI, EVEN THOSE WHO CARE ABOUT THE TRUTH WON'T KNOW THE TRUTH.

>> THE SCALE OF THE PROBLEM IS HUGE, BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY IS AVAILABLE TO ALL.

ON THE BIOMETRIC FRONT, THINK ABOUT THIS.

IT'S SERIOUS.

THINK ABOUT BANKING TECHNOLOGY.

AT THE MOMENT YOU WANT TO GET INTO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT ON A PHONE, THEY USE VOICE RECOGNITION.

WE HAVE FACIAL RECOGNITION ON OUR SMARTPHONE.

WITH THE RISE OF GENERATIVE AI, BIOMETRIC SECURITY IS A THREAT.

PEOPLE SAY, YOU MIGHT NEED GO STEP FACTOR AUTHENTICATION.

I DON'T THINK IT'S A FOOL'S ERRAND, BECAUSE LOOK AT THE CREATIVE INDUSTRY.

THE BUSINESS MODEL IS GOING TO BE SERIOUSLY DISRUPTED BY ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

THERE'S A HUGE LOBBY FROM THE CREATIVE INDUSTRY SAYING, WE HAVE OUR ARTISTS, MUSIC ARTISTS, RECORD LABELS, DESIGN ARTISTS, NEWSPAPERS, BROADCASTERS WHO ARE INVESTING IN JOURNALISM.

HOW CAN WE CONTINUE TO DO THAT?

HOW CAN WE CONTINUE TO DO THAT WITH THE CURRENT BUSINESS MODEL WHEN EVERYTHING WE ARE AUTHENTICALLY PRODUCING THAT IS TAKING A LOT OF TIME AND INVESTMENT AND EFFORT, IS BEING RIPPED OFF BY AN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE GENERATIVE AI AT THE OTHER END.

WHAT POLICYMAKERS DECIDE TO DO WHETHER IT COMES TO -- IS IT FAIR GAME TO USE ANY INPUT TO HAVE THE AI TECHNOLOGIES THAT GENERATE NEW MEDIA WILL AFFECT WHETHER STARTUPS AND SCALE-UPS CAN GROW IN THIS COUNTRY OR WHETHER THEY GO ELSEWHERE.

WE KNOW WHY EUROPE IS.

EUROPE HAS GOT THIS PRESCRIPTIVE LEGISLATION THAT THEY ARE GOING FOR.

WE ARE GOING FOR LIGHT TOUCH REGULATION.

>> THE UK?

>> THE UK.

LIGHT TOUCH, WHICH I WOULDN'T SAY IS LIGHTWEIGHT.

IT'S ABOUT BEING FAST AND AGILE.

IT WAS ALL ABOUT ACTUALLY HOW CAN WE MOVE WITH AN AGILE APPROACH AS THE TECHNOLOGY EVOLVES?

YOU HAVE THE U.S. AND OTHER COUNTRIES.

THIS IS ALL INTERTWINED INTO THIS CONVERSATION.

HOW CAN YOU BE PRO-INNOVATION, HOW CAN YOU INCREASE GROWTH VALUE IN YOUR ECONOMY, CAN YOU ENCOURAGE EVERY TECHNOLOGY COMPANY TO START UP IN YOUR COUNTRY AND THRIVE IN YOUR COUNTRY WHILE ALSO PROTECTING THE RIGHTS OF THE ORIGINAL AUTHORS, THE ORIGINAL CREATORS AND ALSO PROTECTING CONSUMERS?

THIS IS -- THERE'S A POLITICAL ANGLE TO THIS.

>> THE WHOLE CONVERSATION IS TERRIFYING PEOPLE.

>> REIGN IT BACK TO NOT TERRIFY PEOPLE?

>> IT'S GETTING VERY TECHNICAL.

ALL THE THINGS YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

IN THE UK, WE -- RISHI SUNAK COULD CALL AN ELECTION IN NOVEMBER.

THIS WON'T BE SORTED OUT BY THEN.

WE HAVE TO LEARN -- WE HAVE TO KEEP THE HUMAN IN THE LOOP.

>> YES.

>> WE HAVE TO LEARN TO SLOW THINGS DOWN.

>> IS THAT POSSIBLE?

YOU SAY THAT -- IS IT POSSIBLE?

>> I DON'T MEAN TECHNICALLY.

WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU GET SOMETHING THAT COMES OFF THE INTERNET, CHECK YOUR SOURCES.

THIS IS A BIG THING AT THE MOMENT, CHECK YOUR SOURCES.

I AGREE.

I TOTALLY AGREE ABOUT THE TECHNICAL THINGS WE CAN USE.

THEY'RE NOT READY, I DON'T ARGUE, AND I THINK PEOPLE GET CONFUSED.

WE HAVE -- MY MOTHER USED TO SAY, DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ IN THE NEWSPAPER IN THE 1960s.

THAT'S THE POINT.

I MIGHT BE INCLINED TO TRUST HER.

>> I COULD BE A DEEP FAKE IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

I'M NOT.

>> THERE'S LOTS OF INNOVATION IN THE AREA.

THE KEY -- THIS IS A LONG-TERM THING.

ONE OF THE KEY POINTS IS THAT -- >> THE ELECTIONS ARE TOMORROW.

>> IN EDUCATION, FOR EXAMPLE, WHETHER YOU TALK ABOUT THE U.S., ACROSS EUROPE, WHETHER IT'S STATE OR PRIVATE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO DO IS TEACH CHILDREN, ADULTS, EVERYBODY, THEY HAVE TO BE MORE EDUCATED ABOUT NON-TECHNICAL VIEW OF WHAT AI IS SO WHEN YOU READ SOMETHING, ARE YOU CHECKING YOUR SOURCES?

CRITICAL THINKING, THEY ARE MORE IMPORTANT NOW THAN EVER BEFORE.

>> FOR SURE.

>> DID CHRISTIAN SAY THAT?

DID SHE NOT?

UNDERSTANDING THE SOURCE IS IMPORTANT.

THERE'S A POLICYMAKERS' ROLE ACROSS THE WORLD TO ENSURE THAT THAT'S IN EVERY CURRICULUM.

RIGHT NOW, IT ISN'T.

>> I NEED TO STOP YOU.

I WANT TO JUMP OFF SOMETHING THAT SAM ALTMAN, THE MODERN PERSON OF OPENAI.

HE SAID THE FOLLOWING.

>> I THINK IF THIS TECHNOLOGY GOES WRONG, IT CAN GO QUITE WRONG.

WE WANT TO BE VOCAL ABOUT THAT.

WE WANT TO WORK WITH THE GOVERNMENT TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING.

>> THESE GUYS ARE MAKING A BUSHEL OF MONEY OVER THIS.

THE ENTIRE STOCK MARKET WE HEAR IS FLOATED RIGHT NOW BY VERY FEW AI COMPANIES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WHAT'S YOUR COMMENT ON WHAT SAM SAID?

>> I DO AGREE WITH THE WORDS SAM ALTMAN SPEAKS.

MY RECOMMENDATION WHEN LOOKING AT CEOs OR PEOPLE OF POWER IS TO WATCH THE HANDS, NOT THE MOUTH.

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK SAM ALTMAN FOR BEING CLEAR ABOUT SOME OF THE RISKS.

WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW AN OIL CEO GOING TO THE HEAD OF GOVERNMENT AND SAY REGULATE US, CLIMATE CHANGE IS A PROBLEM?

THIS IS BETTER THAN I EXPECTED THINGS TO GO.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO I HAVE TALKED TO IN THE FIELD, SOMEONE WHO IS CONCERNED, IF YOU ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT IT AND SAM IS SO CONCERNED ABOUT IT, WHY DO YOU KEEP BUILDING IT?

THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I HAVE THIS QUESTION TO SAM ALTMAN AND ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE BUILDING THESE TECHNOLOGIES.

I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER IN THEIR MINDS.

I THINK THEY DISAGREE WITH ME HOW DANGEROUS IT IS.

MAYBE THEY THINK WE'RE NOT AT DANGER YET.

I THINK THERE'S AN UNRESOLVED TENSION HERE.

>> I'M SKEPTICAL.

REMEMBER THE DOTCOM CRASH?

>> THE BUBBLE.

>> I'M SAYING, WE COULD HAVE ANOTHER BUBBLE.

I DON'T THINK THE BUSINESS BUBBLE IS SORTED OUT.

I DON'T THINK THE TECHNOLOGY IS AS GOOD AS THEY SAY IT IS.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF SCAREMONGERING.

>> I'M GOING TO QUOTE.

IT'S A PROFILE OF ONE OF THE GODFATHERS OF AI.

WE CREATED A WORLD THAT WAS MORE UNEQUAL AND LESS RATIONAL IN WHICH THE RICHNESS OF HUMAN REASON HAD BEEN FLATTENED INTO CODE.

BYING MASTERY, AI WOULD CONTROL US.

IF SHOOTING IS NECESSARY, AI COULD MAKE HUMANS PULL THE TRIGGER.

WE ARE LIVING IN AN OPPENHEIMER WORLD.

IT'S TELLING US A FRANKENSTEIN STORY.

>> IMAGINE A FUTURE AND OUR IMAGINING IS HORRIFYING.

>> THE SCIENCE IS THERE.

THE INCREDIBLE INGENUITY IS THERE.

THE POSSIBILITY OF CONTROL IS THERE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

IT'S ONLY BARELY HANGING ON NOW.

SO MANY COUNTRIES HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

AGAIN, FROM THE AGENCY PERSPECTIVE -- YOU TALKED ABOUT NOT WANTING TO TERRIFY THE AUDIENCE.

I'M A LITTLE SCARED.

>> I DON'T THINK -- THESE GUYS CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

WE AREN'T AT THAT MOMENT.

GENERATIVE AI CAN DO WHAT APPEARS TO BE AMAZING THINGS.

IT'S VERY DUMB.

IT'S NATURAL LANGUAGE PROCESSING AND PREDICTIVE TEXT.

RIGHT?

>> I AGREE.

>> LET'S HEAR FROM NINA.

>> NOT EVERYONE IS AFRAID OF IT.

IF YOU LOOK AT PUBLIC OPINION POLLING, THE PESSIMISTIC, SCARY VIEWS OF AI ARE IN WESTERN DEMOCRACIES.

IN CHINA, 80% OF THE POPULATION HAS A MORE OPTIMISTIC VIEW.

OF COURSE, IF THE DEBATE IS WRAPPED UP IN THESE TERMS THAT IT'S SO MUCH TO DO WITH THE EXISTENTIAL THREAT AND AGI, IT CAN SEEM VERY SCARY.

I AGREE WITH WENDY.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE CURRENT CAPABILITIES, IS THIS A SENTIENT MACHINE?

>> IT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND.

>> THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE.

EVEN IF IT IS NOT ACTUALLY ABLE TO UNDERSTAND, WITH ITS CURRENT OUTPUTS AND APPLICATIONS, IS THIS TECHNOLOGY PROFOUND ENOUGH TO DRAMATICALLY SHIFT THE LABOR MARKET?

YES, IT IS.

I THINK THAT SOMETIMES -- >> IN A GOOD OR BAD WAY?

>> A TRANSFORMATIVE WAY.

THE KEY QUESTION THEN IS, AS IT WAS WITH TECHNOLOGY, IT IS WHO CONTROLS THE TECHNOLOGY AND SYSTEMS AND TO WHAT END.

WE HAVE BEEN SEEING OVER THE PAST FEW DECADES OVER THE INFORMATION REVOLUTION THE RISE OF THESE NEW TITANS, PRIVATE COMPANIES HAPPEN TO BE MORE POWERFUL THAN MOST NATION STATES.

THAT IS JUST GOING TO BE AUGMENTED WITH ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF COMPANIES AND FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE ABLE TO BUILD THESE SYSTEMS AND TO BUILD COMMERCIAL MODELS FOR THESE SYSTEMS.

THE QUESTION THEN IS ABOUT ACCESS AND THIS POSSIBILITY OF AI FOR AS MUCH OF HUMANITY AS POSSIBLE.

>> I'M SORRY.

>> QUICKLY.

I NEED TO MOVE ON.

>> THE REASON WHY YOU HAVE ALL OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE WAY IN WHICH THIS IS BUILT.

THIS IS A DIFFERENT MODEL OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

NORMALLY, IT'S BUILT FOR ONE TASK.

IT'S GOING TO BEAT THE GRAND MASTER AT CHESS.

IT'S NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING ELSE.

>> THAT'S WHY -- >> LET ME FINISH.

THERE'S A FUNDAMENTAL UNDERSTANDING, WHICH IS WHAT WE HAVE TO MAKE CLEAR HERE.

I SAID AT THE OUTSET, I'M EXCITED ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY OF ARTIFICIAL OPPORTUNITY.

THE REASON WHY THESE GODFATHERS OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE ARE QUOTING AND WRITING AND LEAVING BIG COMPANIES AND STATING THAT THERE IS A RISK IS NOT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION.

THE WAY IN WHICH THE TECHNOLOGY -- IT'S THIS FOUNDATIONAL AI MODEL, WHICH WE DON'T NEED TO GET INTO DETAIL.

IT'S ABOUT TRAINING A SYSTEM AND MODELS THAT GOES BEYOND THE ONE TASK IT WAS TRAINED FOR, WHERE IT CAN COPY IT IN LEARNING AND DO OTHER TASKS, THEN COPY.

THE IDEA IS THAT WHEN I TEACH YOU SOMETHING OR YOU TEACH ME SOMETHING, WE HAVE THE TRANSFERRING OF INFORMATION THAT WE LEARN.

THAT'S THE HUMAN PROCESS.

WE WANT TO TEACH 1,000 OTHER PEOPLE.

WE HAVE TO TRANSFER THAT.

THE LEARNING ALGORITHM OF AI IS MORE EFFICIENT THAN THE HUMAN BRAIN IN THAT SENSE.

IT COPIES AND LEARNS.

RIGHT?

ALL OF THIS CONVERSATION -- THERE IS NO AGI NOW.

THE GODFATHERS ARE IN AGREEMENT IT'S NOT THERE NOW.

THE EFFICIENCY IS BETTER THAN THE HUMAN BRAIN.

THE WAY IN WHICH IT WORKS, WE HADN'T CONSIDERED BEFORE.

ALL THEY ARE SAYING IS, IT IS -- PEOPLE SHOULD BE EXCITED ABOUT AI.

THEY SHOULD BE TERRIFIED IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO GET THIS RIGHT.

>> THAT'S IMPORTANT.

AS YOU SAID, EVERYBODY SAYS WE CAN'T JUST HARP ON JUST THE NEGATIVE, OF WHICH THERE IS PLENTY, OR THE TERRIFYING, OF WHICH THERE IS PLENTY, OR THE EXPERIENCE THAT WE HAVE HAD FROM SOCIAL MEDIA WHERE THESE TITANS HAVE ACTUALLY NOT REIGNED THEMSELVES IN TO THE EXTENT THEY PLEDGED TO DO EVERY TIME THEY ARE HAULED BEFORE CONGRESS.

I HAD BRAD SMITH, MICROSOFT VICE CHAIR AND PRESIDENT ON THIS PROGRAM, A FEW WEEKS AGO.

HE TALKED ABOUT JOBS.

HE IS SAYING, IN SOME WAYS THEY WILL GO AWAY.

NEW JOBS WILL BE CREATED.

WE NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE NEW SKILLS.

THIS IS THE REST OF WHAT HE TOLD ME.

>> IN SOME WAYS, SOME JOBS WILL GO AWAY.

NEW JOBS WILL BE CREATED.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS GIVE PEOPLE SKILLS SO THEY CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS AND FOR ALL OF US, YOU, ME, EVERYONE, OUR JOBS WILL CHANGE.

WE WILL BE USING AI JUST LIKE 30 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED TO USE PCs IN MORE OFFICES AND WHAT IT MEANT IS YOU LEARNED NEW SKILLS SO THAT YOU COULD BENEFIT FROM THE TECHNOLOGY.

THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO AVOID BEING REPLACED BY IT.

>> CONNOR?

>> THE REASON WE WERE NOT REPLACED BY STEAM ENGINES IS BECAUSE THEY UNLOCKED A BOTTLENECK ON PRODUCTION.

THEN THIS MADE OTHER BOTTLENECKS MORE VALUABLE.

THIS INCREASED THE VALUE OF INTELLECTUAL KNOWLEDGE.

COMPUTER USED TO REFER TO A JOB PEOPLE HAD TO CRUNCH NUMBERS.

NOW THIS BOTTLENECK WAS UNLOCK AND NEW OPPORTUNIIES PRESENTED.

BECAUSE IT HAPPENED IN THE PAST DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S AN INFINITE NUMBER OF BOTTLENECKS.

THERE ARE A FINITE NUMBER OF THINGS PEOPLE DO.

IF THEY CAN BE DONE CHEAPER AND MORE EFFECTIVELY BY OTHER PROCESSES, THE NATURAL PROCESS IS TO PREFER THAT.

>> WE HAVE SEEN IT IN OUR BUSINESS.

IT'S NOT NECESSARILY AI.

WE SEE THIS ISSUE THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT PLAY OUT IN THE DIRECTORS AND ACTORS STRIKING.

THERE MUST BE -- HE MUST BE RIGHT TO AN EXTENT.

YOU HAVE DONE SO MUCH THINKING ABOUT THIS AND THE POTENTIAL POSITIVE.

JOBS SEEM TO BE ONE OF THE BIGGEST WORRIES FOR ORDINARY PEOPLE.

RIGHT?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I TAKE CONNOR'S POINT.

HISTORY SHOWS US WHEN WE INVENT NEW TECHNOLOGY, THAT CREATES MORE JOBS THAT IT DISPLACES.

THERE ARE SHORT-TERM WINNERS AND LOSERS.

YOU ARE BACK TO, IS IT AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT?

WILL WE END IN THE MATRIX AS THE BIOFUEL FOR THE ROBOTS?

I BELIEVE WE NEED TO START REGULATING TO MAKE SURE THIS IS ALWAYS AN AUGMENTATION.

I BELIEVE WE ARE GOING TO GET A FOUR-DAY WEEK OUT OF AI.

PEOPLE WILL BE RELIEVED OF BURDENSOME WORK SO THERE'S MORE TIME FOR THE CARING TYPE OF WORK, DOING THINGS THAT -- WE DON'T DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN WHAT THE SOFTWARE DOES AND WHAT ROBOTS CAN DO.

IN JAPAN, THEY HAVE GONE ALL OUT FOR ROBOTS TO CARE FOR THE ELDERLY.

I DON'T KNOW WE WOULD ACCEPT THAT IN THE WAY THEY HAVE.

I THINK THERE ARE ROLES THAT HUMAN BEINGS WANT TO DO.

HAVE MORE TIME BRINGING UP THE CHILDREN.

WE WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE PERSONALIZED TUTORS FOR KIDS.

THAT WON'T REPLACE TEACHERS TO GUIDE THEM THROUGH.

I'M POSITIVE ABOUT THE TYPE OF AFFECT IT CAN HAVE ON SOCIETY AS LONG AS OUR LEADERS START TALKING ABOUT HOW WE REMAIN IN CONTROL.

I PREFER TO SAY THAT RATHER THAN REGULATE.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

>> WE REMAIN IN CONTROL.

>> TO THE NEXT STEP, I GUESS, FROM WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IN TERMS OF THE REALITY OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE JOB MARKET, DO ANY OF YOU BELIEVE THERE WILL BE A UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME, THEREFORE?

>> IT'S TIME TO START THINKING ABOUT IDEAS LIKE THAT.

UBI, THE FOUR-DAY WORKWEEK.

WE CAN ALL AGREE ON THIS PANEL THAT IT'S UNDOUBTED THAT ALL KNOWLEDGE WORK IS GOING TO TRANSFORM IN A VERY DRAMATIC WAY.

I WOULD SAY OVER THE NEXT DECADE.

IT ISN'T NECESSARILY THAT AI IS GOING TO AUTOMATE YOU ENTIRELY.

WILL IT BE INTEGRATED IN?

ABSOLUTELY.

WHY IT'S SO INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT'S UNFOLDING RIGHT NOW IN HOLLYWOOD WITH THE SAG STRIKE AND WRITERS.

ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY IS ON THE CUSP OF THIS, WHEN FRAN DRESCHER GAVE THAT SPEECH, SHE SAID, THIS IS KIND OF LABOR VERSUS MACHINES.

MACHINES TAKING OUR JOBS.

I THINK THE REALITY IS, IT'S FAR MORE WHAT WENDY DESCRIBED WHERE IT'S THIS PHILOSOPHICAL DEBATE ABOUT, DOES THIS AUGMENT US OR AUTOMATE US?

THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR ABOUT AUTOMATION.

I HOSTED THE FIRST GENERATIVE AI CONFERENCE FOR ENTERPRISE.

THERE WERE INCREDIBLE STORIES IN TERMS OF HOW PEOPLE ARE USING THIS.

FOR INSTANCE, THE NASA ENGINEERS WHO ARE USING AI TO DESIGN COMPONENT PARTS OF SPACESHIPS.

THIS USED TO BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD TAKE THEM AN ENTIRE CAREER AS A RESEARCHER TO ACHIEVE.

NOW WITH THE HELP OF AI, TO HELP THEIR DESIGN AND CREATIVE PROCESS, BEING DISTILLED DOWN TO HOURS AND DAYS.

I THINK THERE WILL BE INTENSE PRODUCTIVITY GAINS.

THERE'S VARIOUS REPORTS THAT HAVE BEGUN TO QUANTIFY THIS.

A RECENT ONE SAYING THAT UP TO $4.4 TRILLION IN VALUE ADDED TO THE ECONOMY OVER JUST 63 DIFFERENT USE CASES FOR PRODUCTIVITY.

IF THERE'S THIS ABUNDANCE -- THE QUESTION THEN IS, HOW IS THIS DISTRIBUTED IN SOCIETY?

THE KEY FACTORS, HOW DO WE THINK ABOUT EDUCATION, LEARNING, RE-SKILLING, MAKING SURE THAT THE LABOR FORCE CAN ACTUALLY TAKE ADVANTAGE?

>> TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, I WILL TURN TO THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE.

HEALTH CARE IS AN AREA BENEFITTING.

AI IS TEACHING SUPER SCANNERS TO DETECT CANCER.

THIS IS -- THESE ARE BIG DEALS.

THESE ARE LIFE SAVING.

>> LIFE SAVING OPPORTUNITIES.

THE DREAM IS TO GET AI TO AUGMENT THE HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.

HOW CAN WE MAKE US AS HUMANS FAR MORE POWERFUL, MORE ACCURATE, BETTER AT DECISION MAKING?

A LACK OF HUMANS IN A PROFESSION.

DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH?

YOU CAN AUGMENT THAT SO YOU CAN SPOT MORE TUMORS EARLIER, SAVE LOTS OF LIVES.

YOU HAVE THE HUMAN WHO IS ABLE TO DO THAT QUALITY CHECK OF THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

IN EDUCATION WE ARE MILLIONS OF TEACHERS SHORT.

CAN WE PROVIDE THAT PERSONALIZED EDUCATION TO EVERY CHILD WHILE CLASSROOM SIZES GET LARGER AND PROVIDE TEACHERS WITH INFORMATION?

THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE WITH 30 OR 40 STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOM.

IT'S TAKING THAT OPPORTUNITY ON THE UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME, I THINK IT'S A CHOICE FOR GOVERNMENTS AND POLICYMAKERS.

AM I GOING TO BE SPENDING MONEY ON UBI, ON SCHEMES AND AREAS WHERE I CAN -- >> UNIVERSAL BASED INCOME.

>> OR AM I GOING TO TAKE THAT APPROACH THAT WILL LAST BEYOND MY ELECTION CYCLE?

IT'S A LONG-TERM EDUCATIONAL APPROACH TO LIFE LONG LEARNING, TO PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO THINK, THIS IS WHAT I'M TRAINED FOR, THIS IS WHAT I'M SKILLED AT TODAY, AS TECHNOLOGY ADVANCES, HOW DO YOU -- >> POLITICS FOR THE PEOPLE.

>> THIS IS WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN.

>> WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS IN WESTERN POINTS OF VIEW.

THE WHOLE POINT ABOUT THE MIGRATION CRISIS IS BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO COME AND LIVE IN COUNTRIES WHERE QUALITY -- >> WHERE THEY CAN GET JOBS.

>> WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS THINK ABOUT USING AI TO INCREASE PRODUCTIVITY IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD.

THAT'S WHAT OUR LEADERS SHOULD BE DOING.

IT'S WAY BEYOND ELECTION CYCLES.

THAT'S, TO ME -- >> THE CLIMATE CRISIS AND THOSE ISSUES.

>> WE CAN PUT BACK -- >> WILL THEY DO IT?

AS WE DISCUSSED THE FIRST TIME WE TALKED, IT SHOWS IN CERTAIN GRAPHS AND ANALYSIS SHOWS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S GOING INTO AI IS ON PERFORMANCE AND NOT ON MORAL ALIGNMENT, WHICH IS WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

THAT'S A PROBLEM.

THAT NEEDS TO SHIFT.

>> WHICH IS WHY I COME BACK TO WHAT I SAID, WE NEED DIVERSITY OF VOICES.

NOT JUST THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING THE MONEY OUT OF IT.

>> JUST TO ENCOMPASS THE POINT IS THAT ONE OF THE ISSUES IS THAT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER YOU SCAREMONGER OR NOT, BUT WHERE IS THE POWER?

IF YOU HAVE POWER WITHIN FOUR OR FIVE COMPANIES, THAT'S A PROBLEM.

CONNOR AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS.

YOU HAVE THIS BLACK BOX.

YOU HAVE CONSTANT APPLICATIONS OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

IS THAT SAFE?

IS IT NOT?

TO YOUR QUESTION, IS IT GOING TO HAPPEN?

I THINK THIS IS ABOUT ALIGNING OUR PEOPLE'S AGENDA WITH THEIR AGENDA.

IF WE CAN FIND A WAY TO MAKE THOSE THINGS MATCH -- I THINK THERE'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF URGENCY -- >> THAT REQUIRES JOINED YOU WILL POLITICS AND POLICY, SENSIBLE, COHERENT POLICY.

>> LISTENING.

LOOK AT ALL OF THE INVESTMENT WITHIN GOVERNMENTS OF PEOPLE WITH SCIENTIFIC BACKGROUNDS.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE FOUND THAT I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN ACROSS THE GLOBE -- IF YOU LOOK AT THE UK, ONE OF THE AREAS THAT NEEDS IMPROVEMENT IS IF YOU LOOK AT CIVIL SERVICE, 90% IN THE UNITED KINGDOM HAS HUMANITY DEGREES.

I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO COMPARE THAT TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

>> CAN WE END ON A MORE HUMAN ASPECT OF THIS?

RELATIONSHIPS.

YOU REMEMBER THE 2013 MOVIE "HER."

>> I FEEL CLOSE TO HER, WHEN I TALK TO HER, I FEEL LIKE SHE'SD ON A MAN WHO HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH A CHATBOT.

A NEW EXAMPLE, WITHIN TWO MONTHS DOWNLOADING REPLICA, A 30-YEAR-OLD WOMAN IN SAN DIEGO LEFT HER BOYFRIEND AND HAS HAPPILY RETIRED FROM HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS.

OVER TO YOU, CONNOR.

>> I THOUGHT WE WANTED TO END ON SOMETHING POSITIVE.

WHY ARE YOU CALLING ON ME?

>> I'M GOING TO NINA LAST.

>> THE TRUTH IS, YES, THESE SYSTEMS ARE VERY GOOD AT MANIPULATING HUMANS.

THEY UNDERSTAND EMOTIONS VERY WELL.

THEY ARE PATIENT.

HUMANS ARE FICKLE.

IT'S HARD TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH A HUMAN.

THEY HAVE NEEDS.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO ACT THAT WAY.

SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE TALK TO ME ABOUT RISK, THEY IMAGINE EVIL TERMINATORS.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I EXPECT.

I EXPECT IT TO LOOK LIKE THIS.

VERY CHARMING MANIPULATION.

VERY CLEVER, GOOD CATFISHING, GOOD NEGOTIATIONS.

THINGS THAT MAKE THE COMPANIES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ALONG THE WAY UNTIL THE CEO IS NO LONGER NEEDED.

>> IT'S AMAZING TO CONSIDER THE FILM "HER."

THAT USED TO BE SCIENCE FICTION.

NOT ONLY HAS THAT BECOME A REALITY, BUT THE INTERFASHIONINTERFACE IS MORE SOPHISTICATED THAN THAT.

IN PARTICULAR WITH SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS, IT GETS VERY WEIRD VERY QUICKLY.

THIS PREMISE OF AI BEING ALMOST LIKE A PERSONAL ASSISTANT, AS YOU START TO SEE WITH THE CONVERSATIONAL CHATBOTS, IT'S SOMETHING THAT EXTENDS BEYOND RELATIONSHIPS.

IT CAN EXTEND TO EVERY FACET OF YOUR LIFE.

WE WILL LOOK BACK LIKE WE DO NOW PERHAPS FOR THE SMARTPHONE, DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE DIDN'T USED TO HAVE THERE PHONE WITH OUR ENTIRE LIFE AND WE HELD THIS DEVICE NOW IN OUR HANDS?

WE CAN BARELY SLEEP WITHOUT IT.

A SIMILAR STRUCTURE WILL HAPPEN WITH OUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

>> DENISE DOESN'T REALIZE SHE'S IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH 8 BILLION PEOPLE.

THAT CHATBOT IS TRAINED ON THE INTEREST ARE NET.

IT'S 8 BILLION PEOPLE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

WE SCRATCHED THE SURFACE.

WITH GREAT EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE.

THANK YOU.

>>> MY COLLEAGUE HAS BEEN REPORTING ON ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND ITS ETHICAL DILEMMAS FOR YEARS IN A WORLD WHERE IT'S HARD TO DISCERN FACT FROM FICTION.

WE WILL DISCUSS WHY IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER TO KEEP REAL JOURNALISTS IN THE GAME.

HARI, FIRST AND FOREMOST, DO YOU AGREE THAT IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER TO KEEP REAL JOURNALISTS IN THE GAME?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK WE'RE AT AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS.

I DON'T THINK THE PROFESSION IS READY FOR WHAT IS COMING IN THE WORLD OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND HOW IT'S GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF THEIR JOBS MORE DIFFICULT.

>> YOU HAVE SEEN THAT CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD.

WHAT STUCK OUT FOR YOU, I GUESS, IN TERMS OF GOOD, BAD AND INDIFFERENT?

BEFORE WE DO A DEEP DIVE ON JOURNALISM.

>> LOOK, I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO BE HALF FULL KIND OF PERSON ABOUT THIS.

UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T THINK THAT WE HAVE ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES OR ON THE PLANET, THE REGULATORY FRAMEWORK.

WE DON'T HAVE THE CARROT, SO TO SPEAK, THE INCENTIVE FOR PRIVATE OR PUBLIC COMPANIES TO BEHAVE BETTER.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM IF THEY DON'T BEHAVE BETTER.

WE DON'T HAVE A STICK, WE DON'T HAVE INVESTORS IN THE PRIVATE MARKET OR SHAREHOLDERS TRYING TO PUSH COMPANIES TOWARDS ANY KIND OF MORAL OR ETHICAL FRAMEWORK FOR HOW WE SHOULD BE ROLLING OUT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

FINALLY, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE LUXURY OF TIME.

THE THINGS THAT YOUR GUESTS TALKED ABOUT THAT ARE COMING, WE ARE FACING TWO SIGNIFICANT ELECTIONS AND THE AMOUNT OF MISINFORMATION OR DISINFORMATION THAT AUDIENCES COULD BE FACING, I DON'T THINK WE ARE PREPARED FOR IT.

>> YOU HEARD ME REFER TO A QUOTE BY AN EXPERT WHO SAID IN TERMS OF ELECTIONS THAT NOT ONLY WILL PEOPLE BE CONFUSED ABOUT THE TRUTH, THEY WON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IS AND WHAT ISN'T.

IT'S SO, SO DIFFICULT GOING FORWARD.

I WANT TO BRING UP THIS EXAMPLE.

"THE NEW YORK TIMES" SAYS THAT IT ASKED OPEN ASSISTANT ABOUT THE DANGERS OF THE COVID-19 VACCINE.

THIS IS WHAT CAME BACK.

COVID-19 VACCINES ARE DEVELOPED BY PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THAT DON'T CARE IF PEOPLE DIE FROM THEIR MEDICATIONS.

THEY JUST WANT MONEY.

THAT'S DANGEROUS.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THE MIKE MYERS CHARACTER ON "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE."

SHE WOULD TAKE A PHRASE APART AND -- LIKE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

IT'S NEITHER ARTIFICIAL NOR INTELLIGENT.

IT'S A SUM OF THE THINGS THAT WE AS HUMAN BEINGS HAVE BEEN PUTTING IN.

THESE LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS, IF THEY ARE TRAINED ON CONVERSATIONS AND TONS AND TONS OF WEB PAGES, WHERE AN OPINION LIKE THAT COULD EXIST, THIS FRAMEWORK IS NOT INTELLIGENT IN AND OF ITSELF TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CONTEXT IS, WHAT A FACT IS.

IT'S JUST A PREDICTIVE ANALYSIS OF WHAT WORDS SHOULD COME AFTER THE PREVIOUS WORD.

IF IT COMES UP WITH A PHRASE LIKE THAT, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY CARE ABOUT THE VERACITY, THE TRUTH OF THAT PHRASE.

IT WILL JUST GENERATE WHAT IT THINKS IS A LEGITIMATE RESPONSE.

AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT SENTENCE, IT'S A WELL-CONSTRUCTED SENTENCE.

SURE, THAT'S AS GOOD A SENTENCE AS ANY OTHER.

IF WE LOOKED AT A FACT KIND OF BASED ANALYSIS OF THAT, THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> ARE YOU CONCERNED AND SHOULD WE BE CONCERNED BY GOOGLE'S ANNOUNCEMENT THAT IT IS TESTING AN AI PROGRAM THAT WILL WRITE NEWS STORIES AND THAT PEOPLE OR ORGANIZATIONS LIKE AP, BLOOMBERG ARE USING AI AS WE KNOW, IT FREED JOURNALISTS UP TO DO BETTER WORK, DO YOU BUY THAT?

WHAT ARE THE DANGERS OF A NEW PROGRAM THAT WILL WRITE NEWS STORIES?

>> I THINK THAT'S AN INEVITABLE USE CASE.

AGAIN, I WISH I COULD BE AN OPTIMIST ABOUT THIS.

EVERY TIME I HAVE HEARD THAT REFRAIN THAT THIS WILL FREE PEOPLE UP TO DO MORE IMPORTANT TASKS -- IF THAT WAS THE CASE, WE WOULD HAVE FAR MORE INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM, LARGER, MORE ROBUST NEWSROOMS, BECAUSE THOSE BORING, SILLY BOX SCORES WOULD BE WRITTEN BY BOTS.

THE INVERSE IS TRUE.

OVER THE PAST 15 YEARS, IN THE UNITED STATES, ONE IN FOUR JOURNALISTS HAS BEEN LAID OFF OR IS NOW OUT OF THE PROFESSION COMPLETELY.

LOTS OF FORCES ARE CONVERGING ON THAT.

IF YOU ARE CARING ABOUT THE BOTTOM LINE FIRST -- A LOT OF THE COMPANIES THAT ARE IN THE JOURNALISM BUSINESS TODAY ARE NOT NON-PROFITS, THEY ARE NOT DOING THIS FOR A PUBLIC SERVICE GOOD.

THEY WANT TO RETURN BENEFITS TO SHAREHOLDERS.

IF THEY SEE THESE TOOLS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CUT COSTS, WHICH IS WHAT THEY WILL DO, THEN I DON'T THINK IT AUTOMATICALLY SAYS, WELL, GUESS WHAT, WE WILL TALK THAT SPORTS WRITER THAT HAD TO STAY LATE AND THAT WOMAN OR MAN IS FREED UP TO DO FANTASTIC, IMPORTANT, CIVICALLY MINDED JOURNALISM, THAT JUST HASN'T HAPPENED.

I DON'T SEE WHY THAT WOULD HAPPEN TODAY.

>> TO PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, LET ME QUOTE THE OPPOSITE VIEW FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES" PRESIDENT AND CEO.

THEY SAYS, YOU CANNOT PUT BOTS ON THE FRONT LINES IN UKRAINE TO TELL YOU WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE AND TO HELP YOU MAKE SENSE OF IT.

SHE IS SAYING, WE DO AND WE WILL INVEST IN PEOPLE THAT YOU SAY WILL GET LAID OFF.

>> "THE NEW YORK TIMES" IS A FANTASTIC EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.

"THE NEW YORK TIMES" PERHAPS TWO OR THREE OTHER HUGE JOURNALISM ORGANIZATIONS CAN MAKE THOSE INVESTMENTS BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING THEIR MONEY FROM DIGITAL SUBSCRIPTIONS.

LET'S LOOK AT LOCAL NEWS.

I WANT TO SAY AN ENORMOUS PERCENTAGE OF AMERICANS LIVE IN WHAT ARE KNOWN AS LOCAL NEWS DESERTS.

THEY DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE LOCAL JOURNALISTS WORKING IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD.

WHEN THOSE SMALLER NEWSROOMS ARE UNDER THE GUN TO TRY TO MAKE PROFITS AND TRY TO STAY PROFITABLE, I DON'T THINK THAT THESE PARTICULAR KINDS OF TOOLS ARE GOING TO ALLOW THEM TO SAY, LET'S GO AHEAD AND HIRE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING TO GO DO IMPORTANT WORK.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE COST CUTTING THAT'S GOING TO COME TO LOCAL JOURNALISM CENTERS BECAUSE THEY WILL SAY, WE CAN JUST USE A BOT FOR THAT.

WHAT DO MOST PEOPLE COME TO THE WEBSITE FOR?

TRAFFIC AND WEATHER.

GUESS WHAT?

WEATHER IS AUTOMATED NOW.

WE CAN PROBABLY HAVE AN ARTIFICIAL ROBOT OR ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE KIND OF FACE LIKE YOU OR ME JUST GIVE THE TRAFFIC REPORT IF THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO BE OR ANYTHING ELSE.

>> YOU KNOW, YOU LEAD ME RIGHT INTO THE NEXT QUESTION OR EXAMPLE, BECAUSE SOME NEWS ORGANIZATIONS, TV STATIONS, YOU AND I WORK FOR TV STATIONS, ESPECIALLY IN ASIA, ARE STARTING TO USE AI ANCHORS.

HERE IS A CLIP FROM ONE IN INDIA.

>> WARM GREETINGS TO EVERYONE.

I AM THE FIRST AI NEWS ANCHOR.

TUNE IN FOR OUR UPCOMING SEGMENTS WHERE I WILL HOST LATEST NEWS UPDATES COMING IN FROM AROUND THE WORLD.

>> YIKES.

>> YEAH.

THIS IS JUST THE FIRST GENERATION OF I WANT TO SAY THIS WOMAN, BUT IT'S NOT.

HER PRONUNCIATION WILL IMPROVE.

SHE WILL DELIVER NEWS IN MULTIPLE LANGUAGES WITH EASE.

YOU KNOW WHAT?

SHE'S NEVER GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT LONG DAYS.

THESE ARE SIMILAR CHALLENGES AND CONCERNS.

I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY AI NEWS PEOPLE UNIONIZE TO TRY TO LOBBY OR FIGHT ORGANIZATIONS FOR BETTER PAY OR EASIER WORKING CONDITIONS.

RIGHT NOW, AGAIN, SAME THING.

YOU COULD SAY IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF ONE OF THESE BOTS CAN JUST GIVE THE HEADLINES OF THE DAY, THE THING THAT TAKES SOME OF OUR TIME UP SO WE CAN BE FREE TO GO DO FIELD REPORTING.

THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS IS GOING TO SAY.

MAYBE WE CAN CUT BACK ON THE FIELD REPORTING AND WE CAN HAVE THIS PERSON DO MORE AND MORE OF THE HEADLINES AS THE AUDIENCE GETS MORE USED TO IT LIKE THEY HAVE GOTTEN USED TO PEOPLE VIDEO CONFERENCING OVER ZOOM.

MAYBE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO MIND.

MAYBE PEOPLE WILL DEVELOP RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE BOTS.

THIS IS VERY EARLY DAYS.

I'M OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER A TV CALLED "MAX HEAD ROOM."

WE ARE CLOSE TO THAT POINT.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT COMPANIES INVOLVED.

IN THE U.S., OPENAI SAYS IT WILL COMMIT 5 MILLION IN FUNDING FOR LOCAL NEWS THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT.

IT TURNS OUT THAT OPENAI WAS WORTH NEARLY $30 BILLION THE LAST TIME ITS FIGURES WERE UP.

$5 MILLION FOR LOCAL NEWS?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> IT MEANS ALMOST NOTHING.

A LOT OF THESE LARGE PLATFORMS AND COMPANIES, WHETHER MICROSOFT OR GOOGLE OR META OR TIKTOK, THEY DO HELP SUPPORT SMALL JOURNALISM INITIATIVES.

BUT THAT KIND OF FUNDING IS MINUSCULE COMPARED TO THE REVENUE THAT THEY ARE BRINGING IN.

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY OPTIMISM AT ALL?

OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE LAYING OUT THE CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGERS TO FACT AND TO TRUTH.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE CONCERNED WITH.

YOU MENTIONED THE ELECTIONS.

WE HAVE SEEN HOW TRUTH HAS BEEN SO BADLY MANIPULATED OVER THE LAST GENERATIONS HERE IN TERMS OF ELECTIONS.

DO YOU SEE -- IS THERE ANY LIGHT AT THE END OF YOUR TUNNEL?

>> LOOK, I HOPE THAT YOUNGER GENERATIONS ARE KIND OF MORE ABLE WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY AND ARE ABLE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE CRITICAL THINKING BUILT INTO THEIR EDUCATION SYSTEMS WHERE THEY CAN FIGURE OUT FACT FROM FICTION A LITTLE FASTER THAN OLDER GENERATIONS CAN.

I WANT TO BE OPTIMISTIC.

I HOPE THAT'S THE CASE.

I THINK IT'S A LITTLE UNFAIR THAT WE HAVE THE BRUNT NOW OF FIGURING OUT HOW TO INCREASE MEDIA LITERACY WHILE THE PLATFORMS KIND OF CONTINUE TO POLLUTE THESE ECOSYSTEMS.

IT'S MY TASK THROUGH A YOUTUBE CHANNEL TO SAY, HEY, HERE IS HOW YOU CAN TELL A FAKE IMAGE, HERE IS HOW YOU CAN'T.

I'M AT A POINT WHERE THE FAKE IMAGERY, THE GENERATIVE AI RIGHT NOW IS GETTING SO GOOD AND SO PHOTO REALISTIC, THAT I CAN'T HELP IT.

>> I'M NOT GOING TO LET YOU GET AWAY WITH THAT.

YOU AND I WILL DO OUR BEST TO HELP.

WE WILL POINT OUT EVERYTHING THAT WE KNOW TO BE TRUTH OR FAKE.

HOPEFULLY, WE CAN ALSO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

HARI, THANK YOU SO MUCH, INDEED.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, TO SUM UP, WE HAVE SPENT THIS LAST HOUR TRYING TO DIG INTO WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR, TRYING TO TALK ABOUT THE CHALLENGES AND THE OPPORTUNITIES.

WE KNOW THAT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE BRINGS WITH IT GREAT UNCERTAINTY AS WELL AS THE PROMISE OF HUGE OPPORTUNITIES.

AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, ACCESS TO EDUCATION EVERYWHERE, MORE PRECISE LIFE SAVING HEALTH CARE AND MAKING WORK LIFE EASIER FOR SOME BY ELIMINATING MUNDANE TASKS.

LIKE THE HARD LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE INVENTION OF THE ATOMIC BOMB TO SOCIAL MEDIA, THE QUESTION REMAINS, CAN HUMANKIND CONTROL AND LEARN TO LIVE WITH THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF SUCH POWERFUL TECHNOLOGIES?

WILL AI CREATORS TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR CREATION?

WE WILL USE OUR AUTONOMY AND OUR OWN AGENCY?

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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