ANNOUNCER: IN THE RELATIVELY SHORT TIME SINCE RONALD REAGAN WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT, THE POPULATION OF THE UNITED STATES HAS SOARED BY 100 MILLION, NEARLY 50%.

AT THE SAME TIME, AMERICA HAS BECOME AND IS INCREASINGLY BECOMING OLDER AND MORE ETHNICALLY, RACIALLY, AND RELIGIOUSLY DIVERSE.

THE BASIC FACTS ARE CLEAR-- AMERICA'S FUTURE IS BOTH MORE GRAY AND MORE BROWN THAN ITS PAST.

BUT WHAT DO THOSE FACTS MEAN IN TERMS OF AMERICA'S ECONOMY, POLICIES, AND SOCIAL VALUES?

MANY WELCOME THE DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSFORMATION WROUGHT BY IMMIGRATION, INCREASED LONGEVITY, AND OTHER SOCIAL CHANGES, SUCH AS HILLARY CLINTON, WHO CAMPAIGNED UNDER THE SLOGAN "STRONGER TOGETHER."

BUT MANY AMERICANS, INCLUDING MANY WHO SUPPORTED PRESIDENT TRUMP, VIEW THESE CHANGES AS A THREAT TO WHAT THEY SEE AS HAVING HISTORICALLY MADE AMERICA GREAT.

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE, AS ONE NATION BUT WITH MANY DIFFERENT STRIPES?

THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH" WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY... PHILADELPHIA'S HISTORIC DISTRICT IS BEST KNOWN AS AMERICA'S BIRTHPLACE.

IT MIGHT SURPRISE YOU THEN THAT THE OLDEST PART OF PHILADELPHIA HAS THE LATEST AND GREATEST.

IN STREETS, PARKS, RESTAURANTS, AND SHOPS, YOU'LL FIND VIBRANT ENERGY ALL AROUND.

LEARN MORE AT visitphilly.com.

THE MILL SPRING FOUNDATION, THE DORAN FAMILY FOUNDATION, AMETEK, AND BY... FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS IN ENGLISH-SPEAKING COURTROOMS AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE HAVE SWORN AN OATH TO TELL NOT ONLY THE TRUTH, BUT RATHER THE WHOLE TRUTH.

THE OATH REFLECTS THE WISDOM THAT FAILING TO TELL ALL OF A STORY CAN BE AS EFFECTIVE AS LYING IF YOUR GOAL IS TO MAKE THE FACTS SUPPORT YOUR POINT OF VIEW.

IN THE COURTROOM, THE SEARCH FOR TRUTH ALSO RELIES ON ADVOCATES ADVANCING FIRM CONTRADICTORY ARGUMENTS AND DOING SO WITH DECORUM.

ALL OF THESE APPLY TO THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, WHAT JOHN STUART MILL CALLED "THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS."

THIS SERIES IS A PLACE IN WHICH THE COMPETING VOICES ON THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES OF OUR TIME ARE CHALLENGED AND SET INTO MEANINGFUL CONTEXT SO THAT VIEWERS LIKE YOU CAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES THE WHOLE TRUTH.

E PLURIBUS UNUM-- "FROM MANY ONE."

IT SAYS SO ON OUR COINS.

WE, THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, NOT SOME OF THE PEOPLE OR ONLY CERTAIN KINDS OF PEOPLE, ESTABLISHED THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THAT'S WHAT THE DOCUMENT SAYS.

SO THE CREED OF AMERICA IS CLEAR, BUT THE HISTORY, PRESENT DIVISIONS, AND FUTURE TRENDS REGARDING UNITY AND THE SHARED VISION OF AMERICANS IS FAR LESS CLEAR.

MANY VIEW THE TUMULTUOUS ELECTION OF 2016 AS HAVING BEEN SHAPED BY UNDERLYING DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFTS IN OUR COUNTRY AND THE VAST EFFECTS OF THOSE SHIFTS ON OUR ECONOMY, POLITICS, OUR SOCIAL VALUES, AND OUR SENSE OF NATIONAL DIRECTION.

WE ARE AGING AS A NATION.

WE ARE BECOMING LESS WHITE AND LESS CHRISTIAN.

ON TODAY'S EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH," WE WILL TRY TO UNPACK THESE IDEAS AND LEAVE YOU WITH FOOD FOR THOUGHT ON THE CHANGING FACE OF AMERICA.

LET'S BEGIN FROM AN AGREED SET OF FACTS.

THE UNITED STATES CENSUS BUREAU'S POPULATION DIVISION HAS KINDLY PREPARED SOME DATA FOR USE ON THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH."

LET'S START WITH THE GRAYING OF AMERICA.

AS OF 2015, THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 48 MILLION AMERICANS AGED 65 OR OLDER.

THIS IS 14.9% OF THE TOTAL POPULATION, UP FROM 12.4% IN 2005, WITH THIS SECTION OF THE POPULATION GROWING MUCH FASTER THAN THE TOTAL POPULATION DUE TO THE AGING OF THE BOOMERS.

SINCE THE 2010 CENSUS, THE U.S. POPULATION IN TOTAL HAS GROWN 4.1%, WHILE THE NUMBER OF AMERICANS AGED 65 OR OLDER HAS GROWN APPROXIMATELY 18.6%.

THE CENSUS BUREAU IS PROJECTING THIS OLDER POPULATION TO RISE TO 16.9% IN 2020 AND TO 20.6%, ONE IN 5 AMERICANS, BY 2030.

TURNING NOW TO THE ISSUE OF RACIAL AND ETHNIC COMPOSITION OF THE UNITED STATES, AS YOU CAN SEE, AT PRESENT, JUST UNDER 40% OF ALL AMERICANS ARE MINORITIES, DEFINED AS MEMBERS OF ANY GROUP OTHER THAN NON-HISPANIC WHITES.

HERE TO JOIN US FOR THIS DISCUSSION ARE ROY BECK, THE FOUNDER, PRESIDENT, AND CEO OF NUMBERS USA EDUCATION AND RESEARCH FOUNDATION, AND CLARISSA MARTINEZ DE CASTRO, DEPUTY VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA.

WELCOME, AND I'M GLAD TO SEE YOU.

THESE ARE REMARKABLE NUMBERS.

WE'RE STARTING KIND OF WITH THE GRAYING OF AMERICA, WHICH SETS A CONTEXT HERE.

UM... WE WOULD LIKE...

I'D LIKE TO...

DISCUSS FOR...FOR... FOR A MOMENT THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE GRAYING OF AMERICA AND ITS IMPACT PERHAPS ON THE IMMIGRATION QUESTION.

I AM FIRST INTRIGUED BY SOMETHING THAT I'VE SEEN THAT YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT, ROY, AND THAT IS THE SUSTAINABILITY STUDY DONE BY THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION IN THE LATE NINETIES.

IS THERE AN OPTIMUM POPULATION FOR AMERICA TO BEGIN WITH?

IN OTHER WORDS, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A ZERO-SUM GAME HERE, OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A POSITIVE-SUM PROBLEM WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION?

WELL, PRESIDENT CLINTON'S TASK FORCE OF SUSTAINABILITY LOOKED AT THE QUESTION ABOUT IS THERE ENVIRONMENTAL ADVANTAGE TO HAVING EXTRA POPULATION GROWTH?

AND THEY FOUND NONE TO THAT.

UH...

I BELIEVE THAT THERE'S NO SPECIFIC POPULATION NUMBER THAT YOU CAN SAY WILL ALWAYS BE THE RIGHT SUSTAINABLE NUMBER, BECAUSE TECHNOLOGY CHANGES, A LOT OF THINGS CAN CHANGE.

BUT WHAT THE CLINTON TASK FORCE CONCLUDED WAS THAT, GIVEN ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, THAT THE UNITED STATES CANNOT MEET ITS ENVIRONMENTAL GOALS, CANNOT BE ENVIRONMENTALLY SUSTAINABLE, UNLESS IT STABILIZES ITS POPULATION.

AND THEY KNEW...

KNEW THAT EVEN ONCE A COUNTRY SAYS-- STARTS TO SAY, "WE NEED TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT WILL HELP STABILIZE THE POPULATION," IT CAN TAKE DECADES TO DO THAT.

NOW FORTUNATELY, SINCE 1972, THE AMERICAN FERTILITY LEVEL HAS BEEN JUST BELOW 2.1, WHICH IS THE STABILIZATION LEVEL.

THE...REALLY, THE ONLY LONG-TERM REASON FOR POPULATION GROWTH IN THIS COUNTRY SINCE 1972 HAS BEEN OUR IMMIGRATION POLICY, AND IMMIGRATION POLICY SINCE 1965 HAS QUADRUPLED THE ANNUAL NUMBERS, FROM 250,000 A YEAR TO OVER A MILLION A YEAR.

SO THIS IS WHERE...

THIS IS WHERE THIS...

THIS QUESTION ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY CONNECTS IN WITH THE IMMIGRATION POLICY.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW IMMIGRANTS BEHAVE, BECAUSE IMMIGRANTS ARE JUST PEOPLE, BUT IT JUST IS A FACT THAT IMMIGRATION ADDS PEOPLE.

I ACTUALLY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY SEVERAL YEARS AGO ON A TRIP TO CHINA, TO ASK PEOPLE THAT WE WERE DEALING WITH THERE, THAT IS, CHINESE OFFICIALS, ABOUT THIS VERY QUESTION, THAT IS, WHAT IS A MAXIMUM... WHAT IS A SORT OF AN IDEAL POPULATION TARGET, UH...AND WHAT IS A SUSTAINABLE CHINA?

UM, SO DID THIS STUDY REACH A NUMBER?

DO WE HAVE AN IDEAL?

AT THAT TIME, WE WERE ALREADY... WE PASSED 250 MILLION EARLY IN THE NINETIES.

EARTH DAY 1970, WE WERE AT 203 MILLION.

THE BEGINNING OF EARTH DAY, ALL OF THAT IN 1970, THAT ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT HAD HOPED THAT WE WOULD STABILIZE AROUND 250 MILLION.

BUT WE HIT THAT IN 1990.

I THINK THE HOPE WAS, IN THE EARLY 1990's, THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO STABILIZE A LITTLE BIT ABOVE 300 MILLION.

WE'RE ABOUT 320 MILLION NOW.

SO THE, UH...

THERE IS NO PERFECT LEVEL, BUT THE MAIN THOUGHT IS IS THAT ANY LEVEL, ANY LOWER LEVEL IS BETTER THAN A HIGHER LEVEL.

SO I THINK NOW THE GREATEST HOPE IS THAT WE COULD GET IMMIGRATION NUMBERS INTO SYNC WITH OUR ENVIRONMENTAL GOALS AND THAT WE MIGHT... WE MIGHT STABILIZE SOMEWHERE TOWARD 380 MILLION, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

380?

WHAT DO YOU THINK, CLARISSA?

THIS IS, UH... YOU KNOW, THIS IMPLICATES IMMIGRATION IN A BIG WAY.

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A ZERO-SUM GAME HERE?

IS THIS A...

I THINK EVERY TIME THAT WE TRY TO PAINT THINGS INTO A ZERO-SUM GAME PROPOSITION, WE GET IN TROUBLE, UM, AND I THINK THAT IT ALSO, UM, DENIES KIND OF WHAT THE ETHOS OF OUR COUNTRY IS, WHICH IS THAT WHEN YOU CREATE OPPOR-- OPPORTUNITY IS NOT A FINITE THING.

OPPORTUNITY HAS SPILLOVER EFFECTS.

BUT LET'S PUT ASIDE FOR A SECOND WHAT IS THE COLOR OF ETHNICITY OR THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE GROWTH, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE DO NEED TO LOOK AT THAT FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

BUT IF WE LOOK AT IT SIMPLY FROM AN ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE... LET'S REMEMBER THAT WE HAVE A SOCIAL CONTRACT THAT AT LEAST WE ASPIRE TO FULFILL.

WE HAVE A SOCIAL CONTRACT ABOUT TAKING CARE OF OUR ELDERS AND ALSO MAKING SURE THAT OUR CHILDREN ARE WELL-EQUIPPED TO CARRY OUR SOCIETY FORWARD AND ECONOMIC PROGRESS FORWARD.

SO WHERE THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT NUMBERS DEVOID OF A CONTEXT MISSES A BIG POINT IS HERE-- WITH AN AGING POPULATION, IN ORDER FOR US TO FULFILL THAT SOCIAL CONTRACT OF TAKING CARE OF OUR ELDERS... IS THAT WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS A SHIFT IN THE NUMBER OF THE-- OF PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING AND ABLE TO SUSTAIN THE STRUCTURE THAT HELPS OUR AGING POPULATION, RIGHT?

SO WE'VE GONE FROM A LEVEL OF HAVING ABOUT 5 WORKERS FOR EVERY RETIREE.

WE'RE SEEING THAT BEING REDUCED.

AND SO WHEN WE LOOK AT NUMBERS, WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT.

WHAT IS THE BALANCE?

NOT TO ALSO FULFILL OUR CONTRACT AND OBLIGATION TO THOSE GROWING OLDER, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL SO THAT THOSE CHILDREN COMING OF AGE NOW ARE WELL PREPARED TO KEEP AMERICA COMPETITIVE AND TO KEEP OUR INFRASTRUCTURE STRONG.

IS THERE A TECHNOLOGY OFFSET HERE?

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THESE...THESE...

THESE RATIOS-- 40 TO ONE WHEN THE SOCIAL SECURITY LAWS PASSED IN 1940.

THAT IS WORKER-RETIREE.

WE'RE NOW TALKING TWO TO ONE?

THINGS LIKE THIS, THE GRAYING OF AMERICA, IS THERE A TECHNOLOGY OFFSET OR SOMETHING?

HOW MANY WORKERS DO WE NEED, SO TO SPEAK?

THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT IT'S A WHOLE LOT TOUGHER TO PROVIDE THE SOCIAL SECURITY FOR THIS GROWING OLDER GROUP, AND RIGHT NOW, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, NO CHANGES, THE SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM IS GOING TO GO BANKRUPT.

THE...BUT I DO THINK THAT WE NEED TO... WE NEED TO LOOK AT DEPENDENCY RATIOS, HOW MANY WORKERS ARE SUPPORTING HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE?

IT'S NOT JUST THE OLDER PEOPLE, BUT IT'S HOW MANY YOUNGER PEOPLE THEY'RE SUPPORTING.

NOW, ONE THING THAT'S MUCH BETTER THAN IT WAS IN THE PAST IN THE RATIO IS THERE ARE FAR FEWER CHILDREN PER WORKER THAN THERE USED TO BE, SO THAT IMPROVES THINGS.

SO, ONE OF THE WAYS THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH THE AGING IS HAVE A LOT HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF OUR WORKFORCE WORKING.

WE BELIEVE THAT THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM THAT GIVES LIFETIME WORK PERMITS TO MORE THAN A MILLION MORE PEOPLE EVERY YEAR IS THE WRONG DIRECTION TO BE GOING WHEN WE WERE ADDING.

WE'VE GOT 12 MILLION MORE WORKING-AGE AMERICANS NOW IN THE LABOR FORCE.

WHY WOULD WE CONTINUE TO BRING IN ANOTHER MILLION LIFETIME WORK PERMITS WHILE...WHILE THAT'S GOING ON?

CLARISSA: BUT THIS IS WHERE WE GET IN TROUBLE.

YEAH.

I'M GONNA SAY THIS IS A PROFOUND QUESTION, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING MORE FUNDAMENTAL THAN, UM...

THE DIGNITY OF WORK, AND THAT IS ACCESS TO EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES, BUT, YEAH, AGAIN, GO, CLARISSA.

WHERE WE GET IN TROUBLE IS WHEN WE TRY TO SIMPLISTICALLY POINT TO SOMETHING AS THE CAUSE OR THE SOLUTION TO SOMETHING ELSE, RIGHT?

I MEAN, I THINK THAT THERE ARE AMERICANS WHO ARE LOOKING FOR WORK, BUT IT'S NOT ONLY...

THIS IS NOT A STRAIGHT RESULT OF HAVING IMMIGRANTS IN DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES.

IT'S A RESULT OF POLICY DECISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE WHERE INDUSTRIES HAVE BEEN SHIFTING, AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN PROACTIVE ABOUT HELPING COMMUNITIES PREPARE FOR MORE STABLE JOBS.

I THINK THAT EVEN IN THIS PAST ELECTION, WE SAW A NOTION ABOUT WANTING TO GO BACK TO WHERE THINGS WERE AND BRINGING JOBS THAT I THINK MOST POLITICIANS KNOW THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO BRING BACK.

WHAT WE HAVE FAILED TO DO, WHAT POLITICIANS HAVE FAILED TO HAVE THE FORESIGHT TO DO IS HOW DO YOU PREPARE OUR COMMUNITIES, ALL AMERICAN COMMUNITIES TO BE PREPARED FOR THOSE JOBS THAT THOSE SHIFTS ARE CREATING?

AND THAT TAKES TIME AND EFFORT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO START WITH THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, AND YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT SYSTEMS ARE HELPING.

BUT HERE'S ANOTHER ASTONISHING THING TO ME, IS TO THINK, GIVEN WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN EUROPE, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN JAPAN, THAT THE SOLUTION OF WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S LESS CHILDREN, UM, AND...OR EVEN LESS IMMIGRANTS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN PART OF AMERICA'S UNIQUENESS AND EXCEPTIONALISM IS OUR CONSTANT SENSE OF RENEWAL.

AND THAT COMES THROUGH YOUTH.

IT ALSO COMES THROUGH IMMIGRANTS.

AND I THINK THAT WHAT WE ARE SUFFERING THROUGH RIGHT NOW IS THAT WE HAVEN'T TACKLED THE MODERNIZATION OF OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM SO THAT IT IS A 21st-CENTURY SYSTEM FOR A 21st-CENTURY ECONOMY.

AND SO WE'RE DEALING WITH A SYSTEM THAT IS OUT OF WHACK, OUT OF TUNE.

WE'VE TRIED TO TINKER WITH IT AROUND THE EDGES INSTEAD OF TRULY MODERNIZING IT.

NOW, THAT IS A POLITICAL CHOICE.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE THING THAT'S BEEN KIND OF MYSTIFYING TO ME-- AND THIS IS ROLLING IT BACK TO THE, SAY, 2007 IMMIGRATION DEBATE THAT I REMEMBER PRETTY WELL, UH...IS THAT AMERICANS ALLOW, AS YOU SAY, THIS SYSTEM TO GO ON.

THERE MUST BE POWER...

POWERFUL INCENTIVES TO KEEP THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE.

WHAT ARE THEY, ROY?

WELL...ALMOST NO POLL HAS SHOWN MUCH MORE THAN 15% OF AMERICANS SAYING THEY WANT TO INCREASE IMMIGRATION OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS.

CONGRESS HAS CONSTANTLY INCREASED IMMIGRATION, FROM THE 250,000 TO A MILLION A YEAR.

UH...BUT WHAT I'M ALWAYS TOLD IS, WELL, IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REALLY DIDN'T WANT IT TO INCREASE, THEY WOULD ELECT DIFFERENT PUBLIC OFFICIALS.

THE ISSUE, OF COURSE, IS THAT PEOPLE VOTE FOR ONE OR TWO MAJOR ISSUES, AND THIS ONE HASN'T BEEN HIGH ENOUGH.

HOWEVER, IN THE ELECTION OF 2016, IT FINALLY BECAME REALLY THE PUSHING ISSUE.

AND I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THAT IT SOUNDS LIKE AN AWFUL LOT OF AMERICAN WORKERS WHO HAD VOTED FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THE TWO PREVIOUS ELECTIONS SWITCHED IN THE INDUSTRIAL STATES-- DAVID: SO IT IS A JOBS ISSUE?

AND IT WAS A JOBS ISSUE.

IT WAS A WAGES ISSUE IN TERMS OF...OF WAGES.

AND THAT SHIFT, IT FINALLY HAS HAPPENED.

BUT I WANT TO VERY MUCH AGREE WITH CLARISSA THAT IMMIGRATION IS NOT THE CAUSE OF THESE VARIOUS PROBLEMS.

THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS.

WE HAVE A GLOBALIZATION ISSUE THAT... THAT REDUCES LOTS OF TYPES OF WAGES... OF WAGES AND JOBS.

WE ALSO HAVE THE WHOLE ROBOTICS THING.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA SEE FEWER AND FEWER PEOPLE NEEDED TO DO ALL KINDS OF WORK.

SO THE QUESTION IS NOT IS IMMIGRATION CAUSING OR THE MAIN CAUSE OR A...A REALLY MAJOR CAUSE, BUT IS IT MAKE SENSE, GIVEN ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS, TO...TO FURTHER ENGORGE AN ENGORGED LABOR MARKET?

MANY COMMUNITIES ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND, AND THAT... THAT APPLIES TO-- I THINK THAT...THAT'S A FLAG THAT SHOULD GO UP FOR BOTH PARTIES, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THE PERSON WHO WAS ELECTED WAS AN OUTSIDER EVEN FOR THE PARTY THAT HE WAS CARRYING THE BANNER FOR.

THERE IS A LOT OF FRUSTRATION, UM, AND A LOT OF TIMES, PEOPLE IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES FEEL THAT EVEN IF THERE'S NOT A REAL SOLUTION, THEY WANT TO SEND A MESSAGE.

ONE OF THE THINGS NOT TO FORGET HERE, WHICH IS FASCINATING, IS THAT EVEN IN THE HEIGHT OF WHAT WAS AN INCREDIBLY TOXIC DEBATE AROUND THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION, WE SAW AMERICAN VOTERS' SUPPORT FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM INCLUDING A PATH TO LEGALIZATION TO THOSE IMMIGRANTS CURRENTLY HERE INCREASE, NOT DECREASE, EVEN A MAJORITY AMONG TRUMP SUPPORTERS, AND WHAT THAT TELLS ME AND GIVES ME HOPE IS THAT-- THERE'S A LOT OF AMBIGUITY ABOUT THIS.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL BACK SOLUTIONS WHEN GIVEN THE CHANCE EVERY TIME.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE ECONOMIC THING IS ONE THING.

CULTURAL IMPACT IS ANOTHER.

IF YOU ADD THEM TOGETHER, YOU HAVE A... YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE AN ISSUE THAT AMERICA HAS TO...HAS TO WORK THROUGH.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

CULTURAL IMPACT?

I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SEEING IMMIGRANTS DO THE SAME THING THAT IMMIGRANTS DID GENERATIONS AGO.

BY THE TIME YOU GET TO THIRD GENERATION, PEOPLE-- YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE MAY SAY THIS IS GOOD OR BAD-- BUT THE FACT IS THAT BY THE THIRD GENERATION, THOSE GENERATIONS DON'T HAVE...

SPEAK SOLELY ENGLISH.

THEY ARE NOT EVEN BILINGUAL.

THERE'S SOMETHING UNIQUE ABOUT AMERICA, THAT EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT EXPLICITLY TRYING, PEOPLE ARE INTEGRATED AND BECOME AMERICAN.

AND THAT IS, I THINK, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN RENEWAL FOR THE COUNTRY.

LOOK, PEOPLE RAISED THE SAME ISSUES WHEN THE IRISH IMMIGRANTS CAME.

"NO IRISH ALLOWED" IN A BUNCH OF PLACES.

THE THREAT TO OUR CULTURE.

THE REALITY IS THAT THERE'S SOMETHING TRULY UNIQUE ABOUT AMERICAN CULTURE, AND NO MATTER WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE OR WHERE YOU CAME FROM, YOU ULTIMATELY BECOME AN AMERICAN.

I WOULD SAY LET'S FOCUS ON MODERNIZING OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM SO THAT IT SERVES THE AMERICAN WORKER AND DOESN'T PIT THEM AGAINST WORKERS THAT EMPLOYERS CAN USE AGAINST OUR OWN WORKERS.

IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM AND UNIVERSAL.

AND NUMBER TWO, LET'S BE PROACTIVE RATHER THAN OBSTRUCTIVE TO EVEN ACCELERATE FURTHER THE INTEGRATION OF THESE IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE CONTRIBUTING TO OUR ECONOMY.

ROY, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT THE ATMOS-- I MEAN ABOUT THE SPIRIT OF THIS WHOLE THING, AND THAT IS, UM...

I THINK IT'S STRANGE FOR AMERICANS TO THINK OF THEMSELVES AS SORT OF PLANNING THEIR COUNTRY.

HOW...HOW...HOW IS THIS THING DEBATED WITHOUT THE TAINT, LET'S SAY, OF WE'RE TRYING TO RESTORE SOME SORT OF COUNTRY OR WE'RE TRYING TO MAINTAIN CERTAIN... FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, HOW DO YOU GET AROUND THAT?

I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE... PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY-- WELL, I KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE ANTAGONISTIC TOWARD DIFFERENT CULTURES IF THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE DIVIDING A PIE AND THEY'VE GOT TO...

THEY'VE GOT TO COMPETE WITH SOMEBODY ELSE.

WE WANT TO TAKE THIS COMPETITION AWAY, TIGHTEN THE LABOR MARKET.

THE AGING OF AMERICA IS A WONDERFUL THING FOR WORKERS, BECAUSE THE AGING OF AMERICA MEANS THE LABOR MARKET WILL GET TIGHTER AND TIGHTER.

UH, WHERE DOES THIS THING STAND?

UH...AMERICANS, DO THEY GENUINELY VALUE DIVERSITY?

IS THAT GONNA BE A PROBLEM?

IS THERE A CULTURAL PROBLEM DOWN THE ROAD?

IS THIS, UM... IS THIS JOB QUESTION, UH...INSOFAR AS IT RELATES TO IMMIGRATION, SOLUBLE THERE, OR ARE WE PART OF SOME LARGER... ARE WE SUBJECT TO LARGER FORCES THAT WE CAN'T CONTROL?

WHERE DO THINGS STAND, ROY?

I THINK THAT, UM... AMERICANS, I BELIEVE... WOULD LIKE TO FIND A WAY FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE WHO ARE EMBEDDED IN SOCIETY, WHO ARE IN MIXED-STATUS FAMILIES, BEEN HERE A LONG TIME...

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF...OF INTEREST IN THAT.

BUT AMERICANS ALSO REALLY WANT A LOT LESS IMMIGRATION.

THEY NOT ONLY WANT TO STOP FUTURE IMMIGRATION-- AND BY THE WAY, THE STATS THE LAST YEAR, THERE ACTUALLY IS QUITE AN INCREASE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION COMING ACROSS THE BORDER, THE LAST YEAR.

IT WAS FLAT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

BUT IT'S HAPPENING FAIRLY LARGE RIGHT NOW, NOT AS LARGE AS IT WAS IN THE...

IN THE FIRST 10 YEARS OF THIS MILLENNIUM.

BUT...THERE'S A POSSIBILITY OF MAYBE SOME KIND OF GRAND COMPROMISE IN WHICH...THAT WOULD... THAT WOULD SERVE THE INTERESTS OF THE AMERICAN WORKERS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BY TIGHTENING THE LABOR MARKET, NOT FLOODING THEIR OCCUPATIONS WITH MORE FOREIGN WORKERS, BY REDUCING LEGAL IMMIGRATION IN THE WAY THAT THE BIPARTISAN COMMISSION ASKED FOR AND AT THE SAME TIME, PROVIDING SOME KIND OF AN AMNESTY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE SO LONG BECAUSE WE'VE NOT ENFORCED OUR LAWS.

THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT--AND OTHERWISE, WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA BE IN THE SAME LOGGERHEADS WE'VE BEEN IN FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS IN WHICH NOTHING MOVES.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, UM, IT'S GONNA TURN INTO... CONGRESS DOESN'T GIVE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC CREDIT ON THIS ISSUE.

THERE'S A LOT MORE CONSENSUS AMONG THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

AND SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO HOLD THEIR FEET TO THEIR FIRE.

UM, WE'RE TIRED OF GETTING FED SCAPEGOATS AND VITRIOL.

WHAT ARE THEY GONNA DO ABOUT IT?

SO I THINK THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE ELEMENTS OF OUR LEGAL IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, AND THERE'S GONNA BE MOUNTING PRESSURE FROM HIGH-TECH, FROM AGRICULTURE, YOU NAME IT.

I THINK THE PIECE IS THAT THEY ALSO NEED TO BALANCE THAT NOT ONLY WITH THE INTERESTS OF INDUSTRY, BUT WITH THE INTERESTS OF WORKERS.

SHRINKING THE LABOR FORCE ALONE...

TIGHTENING IT.

MM-HMM.

IF...IF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE SKILLS TO DO THEIR JOBS IT'S NOT GONNA HELP PEOPLE.

SO WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE INVESTING AND PREPARING OUR WORKERS FOR THE...FOR THE JOBS THAT ARE GONNA BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR A FAMILY WITH DIGNITY, THE DIGNITY OF WORK, AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER.

BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA BE WELL SERVED BY BEING SIMPLISTIC ABOUT...ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

BUT TIGHTENING THE LABOR FORCE IS ABOUT THE ONLY WAY THAT, YOU KNOW...

THE HOTEL MAIDS IN THIS COUNTRY, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING IN THE...

THE MEAT-CUTTING INDUSTRIES, THESE ARE ALL PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEN THEIR WAGES STAGNATE OR DECLINE.

THEY DON'T NEED LOTS OF TRAINING.

WHAT THEY NEED IS A LABOR MARKET THAT'S TIGHT ENOUGH IN WHICH THEIR WORK IS VALUABLE, AND THEIR WORK IS VALUABLE.

WE HAVE SO MANY LOW-SKILLED JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT FAR MORE LOWER-EDUCATED AMERICANS WHO... WHO...WHO NEED THOSE JOBS.

CLARISSA: AND WE NEED AN ORDERLY SYSTEM.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE RESTRICTIONS AND WE HAVE REGULATIONS... OF COURSE.

THAT'S A NO-BRAINER.

I THINK EVERY TIME I HEAR PEOPLE SAYING, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT EVERYBODY IN OR NOT IN, THAT IS SUCH A FALSE DISCUSSION, RIGHT?

WE HAVE-- YEAH.

NOBODY WANTS ZERO-SUM.

UH...

I THINK THAT WE'RE... WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GRAND COMPROMISES, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EVERYBODY WANTS A SOLUTION.

I HOPE THAT, UH...

I...I THINK EVERYBODY'S RIGHT.

I THINK EVERYBODY DOES WANT TO SOLVE THIS.

THEY WANT TO ADDRESS THIS.

THEY WANT A DIALOGUE ON IT, AND I THINK THAT YOU ALL HAVE SHED A LOT OF LIGHT ON IT.

WE ARE TRULY GRATEFUL THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO BE WITH US TODAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MANY HAVE DESCRIBED THE EXTREMELY BITTER ELECTION OF 2016 AS MOST FUNDAMENTALLY REFLECTING NOT SO MUCH RIGHT AGAINST LEFT OR REPUBLICANS AGAINST DEMOCRATS, BUT RATHER AS A PARTY OF DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSFORMATION AGAINST A PARTY OF DEMOGRAPHIC RESTORATION.

CAN BOTH OF THESE WORLD VIEWS ON THE DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES PROJECTED FOR OUR COUNTRY BE SQUARED WITH THE "ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE" PLEDGE MOST OF US RECITED EVERY DAY IN OUR YOUTH?

IS THERE A WAY TO ACCOMMODATE DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES WHICH SEEM INEVITABLE, INCLUDING HARNESSING THE POTENTIAL BENEFITS OF IMMIGRATION WITHOUT BREAKING FAITH WITH THE NOTION THAT SINCE AMERICANS ARE NOT BOUND TOGETHER BY BLOOD, THEY MUST SHARE A COMMON SET OF VALUES AND SOCIAL COHESIVENESS?

CLEARLY THE WHOLE TRUTH OF THIS MATTER IS THAT WHILE THESE QUESTIONS CAME TO THE FORE IN THE 2016 ELECTION, THEY WILL LIKELY BE WITH US FOR DECADES TO COME.

THESE ARE DEFINING CHALLENGES FOR THE UNITED STATES IN THE 21st CENTURY.

I'M DAVID EISENHOWER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "THE WHOLE TRUTH."

ANNOUNCER: THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH" WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY... PHILADELPHIA'S HISTORIC DISTRICT IS BEST KNOWN AS AMERICA'S BIRTHPLACE.

IT MIGHT SURPRISE YOU THEN THAT THE OLDEST PART OF PHILADELPHIA HAS THE LATEST AND GREATEST.

IN STREETS, PARKS, RESTAURANTS, AND SHOPS, YOU'LL FIND VIBRANT ENERGY ALL AROUND.

LEARN MORE AT visitphilly.com.

THE MILL SPRING FOUNDATION, THE DORAN FAMILY FOUNDATION, AMETEK, AND BY... AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.