JOHN: FOR MEMBERS OF DOZENS OF NATIVE AMERICAN NATIONS, CROSSING TRIBAL LANDS TO GO TO MEETINGS, CEREMONIES, OR TO VISIT FAMILY MEANS CROSSING THE INTERNATIONAL BORDER.

THAT COULD MEAN TIME-CONSUMING DELAYS.

OFFICIALS FROM ONE TRIBE IN ARIZONA HAVE DRAFTED WHAT WOULD BE THE FIRST BORDER CROSSING PROCEDURES SPECIFICALLY FOR A NATIVE AMERICAN NATION.

IF ADOPTED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, THE RULES COULD PROVIDE A ROADMAP FOR OTHER TRIBES.

A REPORTER AND PROFESSOR JOIN US.

HOW DISRUPTIVE IS THIS TOO ROUTINE LIFE ON TRIBAL LANDS?

>> IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR A NUMBER OF THE FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED TRIBES AS WELL AS OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT ARE NOT RECOGNIZED ALONG THE U.S.-MEXICO BORDER AND BEING ABLE TO MAINTAIN AN ONGOING TRADITIONAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS RESIDING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER.

FOR THEM IN PARTICULAR, THERE ARE CERTAIN CEREMONIES, TRADITIONAL CEREMONIES, THAT CANNOT HAPPEN ON THE U.S. SIDE OF THE BORDER WITHOUT A RELATIONSHIP WITH AND ASSISTANCE FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS ON THE MEXICAN SIDE OF THE BORDER.

BEING ABLE TO EASILY BRING ACROSS CEREMONIAL PERFORMERS, COMMUNITY MEMBERS, TRADITIONAL HEALERS, INTO THE U.S.

IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO PRACTICE THE CEREMONIES IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT.

IN TERMS OF DELAYS, IT MAY SOUND LIKE WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT AN INCONVENIENCE, BUT OFTEN TIMES BECAUSE OF THE PROCESS, TRADITIONAL PROCESSES IN THE CEREMONIES, SIGNIFICANT DELAYS OR THE INABILITY SOMETIMES TO BRING SOMEONE ACROSS INTO THE U.S. FOR CEREMONIAL ACTIVITY CAN MEAN THE CEREMONY SIMPLY CANNOT HAPPEN OR THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE CEREMONY, THE POWER OF THE CEREMONY, IS TAKEN AWAY.

WE ARE SEEING AN IMPOSITION ON THE SPIRITUAL AND RELIGIOUS RIGHTS OF THESE COMMUNITIES.

JOHN: WITH A BROAD BRUSH, TELL US ABOUT THE GUIDELINES THEY HAVE COME UP WITH AND THEY ARE TRYING TO GET DHS TO GO ALONG WITH.

>> THE SPECIFICS HAVE NOT BEEN NAILED DOWN YET.

OVERALL, ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS IS TIME TO GET TRAINING IN THE BORDER TO BORDER AGENTS ON THE TRIBE'S CULTURE, LANGUAGE, TRADITIONS, THINGS TO HELP WITH WHAT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS A LACK OF CULTURAL AWARENESS.

ANOTHER BIG ONE IS FOR THIS PARTICULAR TRIBE HAVING AN INTERPRETER.

AND OVERALL, HAVING MORE CLOSE COORDINATION BETWEEN THE BORDER AND THE TRIBES TO EXPEDITE THIS PROCESS AND MAKE IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE FOR EVERYONE.

JOHN: WHAT IS THE CURRENT STATE OF NEGOTIATIONS WITH DHS?

>> I KNOW THE TRIBE HAS MET WITH THE DHS SECRETARY AND THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS, AS FAR AS I KNOW, BUT I THINK THERE IS STILL A WAYS TO GO.

JOHN: TO WHAT EXTENT IS THIS AN ISSUE FOR THE NATIVE AMERICANS OF SOVEREIGNTY, SOVEREIGNTY FOR THEIR TRIBAL NATIONS?

>> WE TALK ABOUT THE WAYS IN WHICH THE U.S.-MEXICO BORDER AFFECTS THESE TRIBAL NATIONS ALONG THE SOUTHERN BORDER, WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS AN IMPOSITION OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT UPON THESE TRIBAL NATIONS IN DECIDING WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ON THEIR OWN TRIBAL LANDS, WHAT SHOULD BE DONE IN TERMS OF POLICYMAKING WITH REGARDS TO MOVEMENT OF THEIR PEOPLES ACROSS TRADITIONAL TERRITORIES.

TRIBAL NATIONS AGREE TERRITORIES NEED TO BE PROTECTED.

BUT THEY NEED TO BE TRUSTED AS TRIBAL NATIONS, SOVEREIGN NATIONS, TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT HOW TO BEST PROTECT THEIR TERRITORIES.

AT THE MOMENT, BECAUSE SO MUCH DECISION-MAKING IS HELD IN THE HANDS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THERE ARE NO CLEAR PROCEDURES SET OUT THAT ENSURES THE RIGHTS OF TRIBAL NATIONS WILL BE PROTECTED, IT SEEMS THE SOVEREIGNTY OF TRIBAL NATIONS IS NOT BEING RESPECTED AND IS UNDER THREAT IF TRIBAL NATIONS DO NOT HAVE A CLEAR SIGHT IN THE WAYS IN WHICH THESE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES ARE DEVELOPED AND SHARED.

JOHN: DO THE MEMBERS OF THESE TRIBAL NATIONS HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS ON THE MEXICAN SIDE?

>> ON THE MEXICAN SIDE, THERE IS ALSO A CONCERN ABOUT POLICY AND PROCEDURE REGARDING MOVEMENT OF PEOPLES ACROSS THE BORDER.

I WOULD SAY MOST OF THE CONCERN IS COMING FROM THE U.S. SIDE IN TERMS OF THE VARIOUS FEARS THAT EXIST ON THE U.S. SIDE ABOUT MOVEMENTS FROM THE SOUTH INTO U.S.

TERRITORY.

CERTAINLY, INDIGENOUS POPULATIONS IN MEXICO AND THE U.S. ARE DEEPLY IMPACTED BY THE CURRENT POLICIES THAT EXIST AT THE BORDER.

JOHN: IS THERE A CHANCE OR POSSIBILITY THIS COULD ALL GET CAUGHT UP IN THE POLITICS OF BORDER SECURITY AND IMMIGRATION?

>> IT IS REALLY HARD TO KNOW WHAT COULD HAPPEN HERE.

THIS IS NOT JUST A POLICY FOR ONE PARTICULAR TRIBE.

IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE USED AS A TEMPLATE FOR DOZENS OF OTHERS.

IT WOULD BE A BIG DECISION FOR SURE.

JOHN: THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.