>> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON...

REACTION TO SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS AIMING CRITICISM AT PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION.

IT'S BEEN FIVE YEARS SINCE THE COVID PANDEMIC BEGAN.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS... AND, A NEW ART EXHIBIT USES EMBROIDERY TO TELL THE STORIES OF UKRANIAN SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE, NEXT, ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

ARIZONA TODAY CONDUCTED ITS FIRST EXECUTION IN THREE YEARS.

AARON GUNCHES WAS PUT TO DEATH BY LETHAL INJECTION AT A PRISON FACILITY IN FLORENCE.

GUNCHES WAS SENTENCED TO DEATH FOR A MURDER COMMITTED IN 2002.

TODAY'S EXECUTION FOLLOWED CONCERNS BY GOVERNOR HOBBS OVER, QUOTE, "MIS-MANAGED" EXECUTIONS IN THE PAST.

BUT BACK IN NOVEMBER THE GOVERNOR CITED A REVIEW OF THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS AS PROOF THAT THE STATE WAS PREPARED TO CONTINUE WITH THE ULTIMATE PUNISHMENT, AND THERE WERE NO REPORTS OF MIS-MANAGEMENT INVOLVING TODAY'S EXECUTION.

OTHER HEADLINES: SECRETARY OF STATE ADRIAN FONTES TODAY ANNOUNCED ON SOCIAL MEDIA THAT HE'S, QUOTE, "STRONGLY CONSIDERING" A RUN TO SUCCEED THE LATE RAUL GRIJALVA IN CONGRESS.

FONTES ADDED THAT HE WILL HAVE QUOTE, "MORE TO SAY IN THE DAYS AHEAD."

GRIJALVA DIED LAST WEEK FROM COMPLICATIONS OF CANCER TREATMENTS.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE TODAY LEFT INTEREST RATES STEADY.

FED CHAIR JEROME POWELL CITED TARIFFS AND UNCERTAINTY AS LIKELY LEADING TO LOWER GROWTH AND HIGHER INFLATION AND THUS NO MOVE ON RATES.

>> IT IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO HAVE A PRECISE ASSESSMENT OF HOW MUCH OF INFLATION IS COMING FROM TARIFFS.

THE ANSWER IS CLEARLY SOME OF IT, A GOOD PART OF IT IS COMING FROM TARIFFS.

>> THAT SAID, POWELL ALSO SIGNALED THAT THERE STILL COULD BE RATE CUTS LATER IN THE YEAR.

AS FOR THE CHANCE OF A RECESSION LATER THIS YEAR... >> WE DON'T MAKE SUCH A FORECAST.

IF YOU LOOK AT OUTSIDE FORECASTS, FORECASTERS HAVE GENERALLY RAISED THEIR POSSIBILITY OF A RECESSION SOMEWHAT, BUT STILL AT RELATIVELY MODERATE LEVELS.

STILL IN THE REGION OF THE TRADITIONAL.

THEY'RE EXTREMELY LOW, IF YOU GO BACK TWO MONTHS, PEOPLE WERE SAYING THAT THE LIKELIHOOD OF A RECESSION WAS EXTREMELY LOW.

SO HAS MOVED UP, BUT IT'S NOT HIGH.

>> ONE MORE HEADLINE.

THE U.S. DEFENSE DEPARTMENT IS NOW WORKING TO RESTORE OFFICIAL INFORMATION ABOUT NAVAJO CODE- TALKERS OF WORLD WAR-2.

THAT INFORMATION HAD BEEN REMOVED UNDER WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CONSIDERS DIVERSITY EFFORTS IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THE DELETION OF THE ICONIC IWO-JIMA FLAG-RAISING PHOTO WHICH EMPHASIZED THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF IRA HAYES, A PIMA INDIAN, WAS ALSO RESTORED.

THE PENTAGON TODAY SAID THAT THE CONTENT HAD BEEN DELETED DUE TO A, QUOTE, "AUTOMATIC REMOVAL PROCESS."

PRESIDENT TRUMP IS CALLING FOR THE IMPEACHMENT OF A JUDGE WHO ORDERED THE ADMINISTRATION TO HALT DEPORTATION FLIGHTS OF ALLEGED VENEZUELAN GANG MEMBERS.

THE JUDGE'S ORDER TO HALT THE FLIGHTS WAS IGNORED BY THE ADMINISTRATION, AND THE PRESIDENT'S CALL FOR IMPEACHMENT PROMPTED A RARE PUBLIC REBUKE BY U.S. SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS.

JOINING US NOW IS FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY PAUL CHARLTON, A PARTNER AT DENTONS.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK FOR HAVING ME.

>> LET'S START WITH CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS FIRST OF ALL SAYING ANYTHING, BUT SAYING THIS IN PARTICULAR.

>> IT IS RARE TO HEAR FROM A CHIEF JUSTICE TO TALK PUBLICALLY ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE FROM THE OTHER BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT ARE SAYING.

BUT CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS HAS DONE SO IN THE PAST.

YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT CHUCK SCHUMER, WHO WAS CONCERNED ABOUT OVERRULING OR OVERTURNING ROE VERSUS WADE SAID THAT THE SUPREME COURT WOULD REAP THE WHIRL WIND AND CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS SAID TALK LIKE THAT COULD ENCOURAGE VIOLENCE OR VIOLENT BEHAVIOR TOWARDS THE SUPREME COURT.

SO HE HAS MADE STATEMENTS PUBLICALLY WITH OTHER PUBLIC OFFICIALS, HAS SAID THINGS THAT HE FELT WERE OFFENSIVE TO THE JUDICIARY, BUT IT IS STILL A RARE THING TO HEAR.

>> AND THE PRESIDENT, I DON'T THINK HE'S BACKING OFF ON THIS AT ALL, IS ANYTHING KEEP HIM FROM MAKING SUCH STAPLES REGARDING THE IMPEACHMENT OF A JUDGE WHO SIMPLY MADE A RULING HE DOESN'T LIKE IT?

>> THERE'S NOTHING THAT WOULD STOP HIM OR ANY OTHER POLICY POLITICIAN OTHER THAN WHAT YOU COULD CALL A ASSOCIATE CALL BACK TO WORK FOR GOOD BEHAVIOR.

IT ISN'T TYPICALLY THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW THE JUDICIARY FUNCTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES AND WOULD ADOPT.

IMPEACHMENT, AS CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS SAID, IS THE KIND OF THING DO YOU WHEN THERE IS TRULY BAD BEHAVIOR ON THE BENCH.

NOT SIMPLY A DECISION WITH WHICH YOU DISAGREE.

>> BUT THE STATEMENT, CALL FOR IMPEACHMENT, REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS ARE NOW DRAWING THEM UP, DRAWING UP THE ARTICLES HEAR.

THE IMPACT ON THE SIMPLE RULE OF LAW.

>> IT MAY BE, BUT AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW AND RECOGNIZE, A CALLING FOR AN IMPEACHMENT, GIVEN THE CURRENT SETUP OF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, IS PROBABLY MORE PERFORMATIVE THAN IT IS SUBSTANTIVE.

IT'S HIGHLY UNUSUAL TO THINK THAT THE HOUSE WOULD HAVE ENOUGH VOTES TO PASS A MAJORITY VOTE IMPEACHING THIS JUDGE.

AND EVEN A RARER OR MORE UNUSUAL TO THINK THAT THE SENATE COULD GET 2/3 OF THE VOTES, AS WE KNOW FROM WATCHING PRESIDENT TRUMP, YOU NEED 2/3rds OF THE SENATE VOTE TO FULLY IMPEACH AN INDIVIDUAL INCLUDING A JUDGE AND THAT SEEMS HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

WHILE THERE'S AN ASPECT OF THIS THAT COULD APPEAL TO A CERTAIN VOTER IT SEEMS UNUSUAL TO ME OR HARD TO BELIEVE THAT WE WOULD EVER SEE THIS JUDGE REMOVED.

>> AND THE ACTUAL IMPEACHMENT I WOULD THINK WOULD A BIT OUT THERE, BUT THE CHILLING EFFECT OF THE WORDS, THE CONSTANT -- THE ATTACK ON ANYONE IN JUDICIARY THAT DISAGREES, SIMPLY DISAGREES WITH THE PRESIDENT.

I MEAN, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT I DISAGREE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU'RE A THIS AND YOU'RE A THAT AND FILL IN THE BLANKS.

>> AND I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU HEARD CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS SAY THAT THAT'S NOT THE WAY IN WHICH WE EXPRESS OUR DISAGREEMENT WITH ANY COURT, IF WE HAVE A DISAGREEMENT WITH THE COURT, A DECISION THAT THE COURT HAS MADE, YOU TAKE THAT COURT UP ON APPEAL AND YOU INFORM THE APPELLATE COURTS THIS IS WHY WE DISAGREE, THIS IS WHY THE JUDGE GOT IT WRONG.

AN IMPEACHMENT ISN'T, JUSTICE ROBERT WAS SAYING, AN APPROPRIATE VEHICLE IN WHICH TO REMOVE A JUDGE BECAUSE HE MADE A DECISION OF WHICH THEY DISAGREE.

>> FROM A DISTANCE IT'S NOW LIKE THE JUDGE SAYS DON'T DO THIS, AND THE ADMINISTRATION DID THAT.

>> SO THE ALIEN ENFORCEMENT ACT IS IS A LAW THAT WAS PASSED IN 1798, AND IT IS A WAR POWERS ACTED.

THE FIRST WORLD WAR, THE SECOND WORLD WAR, IT WAS USED TO ROUND UP JAPANESE AMERICANS AND PUT THEM IN CAMPS DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR, IS NOW BEING USED AGAIN BY THIS ADMINISTRATION TO SAY THAT THIS IS A WAR POWERS ACT THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE TO ROUND UP A VENEZUELAN GANG.

WHAT THE ACLU SAYS NO, THAT'S NOT A CORRECT INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW, AND THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT YOU REMOVED FROM THE UNITED STATES, CLAIMING THAT THEY WERE SUBJECT TO THIS LAW, NEVER GOT DUE PROCESS.

THEY WERE JUST DETAINED AND THEN SHIPPED OUT TO EL SALVADOR.

THEY WENT TO THE JUDGE AND SAID, JUDGE, STOP THE GOVERNMENT FROM EMPLOYING THIS LAW TO TAKE THESE PEOPLE FROM THE UNITED STATES, AND THE COURT SAID, ALL RIGHT, I'LL GIVE YOU A TEMPORARY INJUNCTION.

I WILL GIVE YOU A REPRIEVE FOR A CERTAIN NUMBER OF DAYS UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT CAN EXPLAIN TO ME THAT WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS LAWFUL AND WHETHER OR NOT THESE INDIVIDUALS DESERVE DUE PROCESS.

IT WAS THAT TEMPORARY REPRIEVE THAT'S NOW AT ISSUE.

BECAUSE THE JUDGE SAID IN AN ORAL ORDER, TO THE EXTENT YOU GUYS ARE FLYING ANYBODY OUT OF THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, TURN THOSE PLANES AROUND AND BRING THEM BACK.

THEN HE ISSUED A FORMAL WRITTEN ORDER, AND WHAT THE TRUMP LAWYERS, I SHOULD BETTER SAY THE DOGE LAWYERS ARE SAYING NOW, WE COMPLY WITH YOUR ORDER, JUDGE.

THE FIRST TWO PLANES TO LEAVE DIDN'T LEAVE UNTIL -- OR BEFORE YOUR WRITTEN ORDER WAS ISSUED.

WE THINK WE COMPLIED WITH THE WRITTEN ORDER.

THERE WAS A THIRD PLANE THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANYBODY, THAT WAS IMPACTED BY THE LAW, THAT'S AT CONTEST OR ISSUE HERE.

WE THINK WE COMPLIED WITH YOUR ORDER.

THE JUDGE WANTS TO SEE MORE.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT THE DISCUSSION HAS BEEN BE ABOUT BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND THIS JUDGE.

>> AND YET THE ATTORNEYS SEEM LIKE THEY'RE SAYING, THE ORAL ORDER DOESN'T APPLY HERE.

THE WRITTEN ORDER DOES.

ATTORNEYS, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, BUT OUTSIDE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THE OTHER FOLKS PRO TRUMP, THEY ARE JUST GOING CRAZY ON THIS, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

THEY'RE SAYING THAT A DISTRICT JUDGE -- TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS, THE LEGAL ASPECTS OF THE IDEA OF A SINGLE DISTRICT JUDGE ANYWHERE AFFECTING POLICY, LAW, ACTIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

THEY'RE SAYING THAT'S NOT RIGHT.

THEY'RE SAYING THAT'S AGAIN THE LAW?

RIGHT.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS IN THERE.

NUMBER 1, I THINK WE'VE SEEN BEFORE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS EMPLOYED THIS IDEA OF USING SPOKESPEOPLE, INCLUDING HIMSELF, WHO'S A VERY ABLE SPOKESPERSON FOR HIMSELF, TO MAKE STATEMENTS OUTSIDE OF COURT THAT YOU DON'T HEAR THE LAWYERS MAKING IN COURT.

WHAT WE DON'T HEAR IS "WE ARE GOING ILLEGAL TO NOR YOUR ORDER."

THEY'RE MAKING ARGUMENTS WHETHER THEY'RE WITH MERIT OR WITHOUT MERIT, THEY'RE MAKING ARGUMENTS BEFORE THE COURT.

THEY ARE NOT SAYING AND HAVE NOT SAID WE'RE GOING TO IGNORE YOUR ORDER BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW IT.

WHAT THEY SAY OUTSIDE OF COURT THEY WON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW IT -- TOM FOLLMAN, ONE OF THE INDIVIDUALS IN CHARGE OF THE ROUND-UPS, HAS BEEN SAYING WE DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAW AND WE WON'T FOLLOW THE LAW.

SO WHAT YOU HEAR OUTSIDE OF COURT AND INSIDE OF COURT ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

AND THEN, TED, THE IDEA THAT A SINGLE DISTRICT COURT JUDGE CAN PUT AN INJUNCTION THROUGHOUT, WILL STOP SOMETHING FROM OCCURRING THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, A UNIVERSAL INJUNCTION, A UNIVERSAL, PUT THE BRAKES ON AN ORDER, IS SOMETHING THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS APPROVED IN LIMITED WAYS IN THE PAST.

SO THIS IS NOT NOVEL.

THIS ISN'T NEW.

IT HAS OCCURRED IN THE PAST IN DIFFERENT AREAS AND FOR DIFFERENT SUBJECTS.

>> IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS PUSHING AND PUSHING HARD BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SEE IT RETURN TO THE SUPREME COURT?

>> I THINK THEY WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY OTHER THAN THIS JUDGE LOOK AT THIS.

AND THEY HAVE TRIED NOW A COUPLE TIMES IN SOME, I WOULD SAY, UNUSUAL WAYS.

THEY WROTE A LETTER TO THE COURT OF APPEALS SAYING TAKE THIS JUDGE OFF THE CASE.

WRITING LETTERS TO THE COURTS OF APPEALS SAYING WE WANT THIS JUDGE REMOVED IS IN MY EXPERIENCE AN UNUSUAL WAY OF EXPRESSING YOUR DISPLEASURE WITH A JUDGE, BUT IT IS AGAIN A COMMUNICATION WHETHER WITH MERIT OR WITHOUT MERIT THAT IS AT LEAST ONE THAT DOESN'T GO SO FAR AS TO SAY WE REFUSE TO FOLLOW THE 81'S ORDERS.

>> PAUL, DOES THIS ALL GO BACK -- I -- DOES THIS ALL GO BACK TO THE EXTREME JUSTICE ROBERTS' COURT, BASICALLY GIVING IMMUNITY TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES FOR OFFICIAL ACTIONS?

IT SURE SEEMS LIKE IT DOES.

>> WELL, WHAT CAN YOU SAY, I THINK, THAT CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS, WHO VOTED IN FAVOR OF THAT OPINION THAT GAVE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BROAD ILL COMMUNITY FOR ACTS TO TAKE PLACE WITHIN THE CORE ACTS LZ ME ALIGNED HIMSELF TO PRESIDENT TRUMP'S VIEW.

HE'S BEEN VERY CLEAR SAYING, NOT HERE.

YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR BY EXPRESSING THAT YOU SHOULD REMOVE THIS JUDGE WITH IMPEACHMENT.

THIS JUDGE, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH HIS OPINION, TAKE HIM UP ON APPEAL.

>> IS THERE A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISES HAPPENING, WE JUST DON'T REALIZE IT, OR IS IT A QUESTION OF -- NOT A QUESTION OF IF, BUT A QUESTION OF WHEN?

>> I THINK IF YOU WERE LISTENING TO THE INDIVIDUALS ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OUTSIDE OF COURT, YOU WOULD SAY, AND IT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY, THAT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISES, BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS WE DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE ORDERS OF THE COURT.

IF YOU READ THE PLEADINGS THAT THE LAWYERS FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ARE MAKING IN COURT, I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD SAY THE SAME THING.

>> SO YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING THE ATTORNEYS ARE WALKING A FINE LINE BUT EVERYONE AROUND THE WHITE HOUSE IS JOINING THE CHORUS.

>> I WOULD SAY EVEN AGGRESSIVE POSITION WITH THIS COURT, AND THEY ARE COMING VERY CLOSE TO FINDING THEMSELVES IN CONTEMPT OF COURT, IF THAT HAPPENS, WE'LL SEE.

BUT SO FAR THEY'RE MAKING THE ARGUMENTS THAT LAWYERS MAKE.

>>> PAUL CHARLATAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY AND OUR GO-TO GUY ON STUFF THAT -- IT'S JUST AMAZING.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANKS, TED.

FIVE YEARS AGO THIS MONTH THE WORLD WENT INTO LOCKDOWN DUE TO THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

TODAY ASPECTS OF THE FALLOUT CONTINUE.

AND JOINING US NOW IS WILL HUMBLE, FROM THE ARIZONA PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION.

DOES IT FEEL LIKE IT'S BEEN FIVE YEARS?

>> IN SOME WAYS IT DOES, AND IN SOME WAYS IT DOESN'T.

THINGS ARE A LOT DIFFERENT, IN SOME WAYS WE'RE LIVING IN A DIFFERENT WORLD THAN WE WERE FIVE YEARS AGO.

>> >> IN ARIZONA WE HAD OUR SEASONAL COVID WAY BACK IN DECEMBER-JANUARY.

THE REST OF THE COUNTRY HAD A LITTLE LATER LIKE LAST MONTH.

SO IT'S A VIRUS THAT WILL BE WITH HUMANITY FOR AS LONG AS WE'RE AROUND, I THINK, BUT IT WILL CONTINUE I THINK TO MUTATE AND BECOME MORE AND MORE CONTAGIOUS, LESS AND LESS LETHAL, AND OF COURSE THERE'S A LOT OF ANTI-BODIES AND IMMUNITY OUT THERE THAT MAKE IT LESS OF A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISES.

>> AND IT WOULD BE PUBLIC BE ENEMY NUMBER 1 AND SEEMS LIKE LONG COVID CONTINUES TO BE A CONCERN.

HOW MUCH OF A CONCERN?

>> WELL, IF YOU'RE -- SOMEBODY WHO HAS IT, IT'S LIKE A LIFE CHANGING CONCERN.

BUT LONG COVID DOESN'T MEAN FOREVER.

OF THE PERSONS WHO GOT A REALLY BAD INFECTION, ABOUT 10 TO 30% OF THEM HAVE WEEKS TO MONTHS WORTH OF SYMPTOMS?

USUALLY NEUROLOGICAL, SOMETIMES PHYSIOLOGICAL, ISSUES WITH ENDURANCE.

THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT ARE WITH NEUROLOGICAL, BRAIN FOG SORTS OF THINGS.

AND THERE ARE SOME TREES FOR PERSONS CAN THOSE KINDS OF SYMPTOMS.

ALTHOUGH, TREXONE IS ONE, COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY TO HELP YOU DEAL WITH IT.

IF THERE'S ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION, THERE'S MEDICATIONS TO HELP WITH THAT.

BUT IT DOESN'T AFFECT PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO FUNCTION IN LIFE, WHICH IS NOT EASY.

>> HAS IT ALWAYS OCCURRED TO THOSE WHO HAD A BAD CASE OF COVID, OH, IS IT SOMETHING -- I HAD A GLANCING CASE OF COVID, AND YOU NEVER GOT RID OF THE SYMPTOMS?

>> YES.

PEOPLE WHO HAD A MILD CASE MAYBE JUST LOSS OF TASTE AND SMELL CAN STILL HAVE FOR WEEKS, MONTHS OR EVEN YEARS SYMPTOMS, BUT IT'S MOSTLY, PREDOMINATELY THE LONG-TERM COVID SYMPTOMS LAST IN PEOPLE WHO WERE REALLY HIT WITH IT HARD AND EARLY.

YOU KNOW, THOSE EARLY VERSIONS OF THE VIRUS WERE MORE LETHAL.

>> INTERESTING.

>> AND HARMFUL TO THE BODY.

IT MUTATED, WHICH YOU EXPECT FROM NATURAL SELECTION, YOU KNOW.

A VIRUS ISN'T GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL IF IT KILLS ITS HOST.

SO IT NEEDS TO KEEP CHANGING AND BECOME MORE TRANSMISSIBLE, LESS LETHAL.

>> BUT THE EARLY INFECTIONS ARE THE ONES MOST LIKELY WITH THE LONG COVID?

>> YES.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

I HAD NOT HEARD THAT.

THE LASTING EFFECTS OF THE PANDEMIC, AND LET'S SPEAK IN SOCIETAL TERMS HERE, JUST SIMPLY THE PUBLIC TRUST IN SCIENCE AND MEDICINE.

>> I THINK IN THE LONG RUN, IN TERMS OF MY EXPERIENCE IN PUBLIC HEALTH OVER THE LAST 30, 40 YEARS, IT'S -- IT'S BEEN THE SINGLE BIGGEST EVENT TO UNDERMINE TRUST IN INSTITUTIONS AND FACT.

NOT JUST TRUST IN SCIENCE.

NOT JUST TRUST IN THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD, BUT REALLY TRUST IN INSTITUTIONS IS WHAT HAS ERODED.

AND I DON'T KNOW -- EVENTUALLY PEOPLE WILL GET SOME OF THAT BACK.

NOT ERODED WITH EVERYBODY.

BUT THERE'S 30, 40% OF THE POPULATION THAT IT IS DIFFERENTLY THAN IT USED TO.

NOT BECAUSE OF COVID, PER SE, BUT BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TALKED ABOUT IT.

>> WELL, AND ALSO PUBLIC TRUST IN VACCINES.

>> AND THAT, RIGHT.

WHICH TIES INTO IF YOU LOSE TRUST IN THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD IN SCIENCE AND EVIDENCE-BASED MEDICINE, YOU'VE ALSO LOST TRUST IN VACCINES AND LOST TRUST IN THE FDA, YOU KNOW WHO WAS THE REGULATOR FOR VACCINES FOR SAFETY AND EFFICACY.

SO MAYBE WE GET THAT BACK SOME DAY.

BUT IT'S BEEN A BIG HIT TO THE WORLD OF SCIENCE, I THINK.

NOT BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, COVID PER SE, BUT THAT REACTION TO IT, THE POLITICAL REACTION TO IT.

>> I WAS GONNA SAY, WHAT -- IT SEEMS AS THOUGH IT WAS BAD.

IT GOT BETTER.

THE VACCINES MADE IT GET A WHOLE LOT BETTER.

WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

>> WELL, I'M GETTING OUT OF SCIENCE, BUT -- >> JUST YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT JUST REALLY REEXTENDED THE RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT THEY BELIEVED WERE THEIR -- RESENTED THE RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT THEY BELIEVED WERE THEIR FREEDOMS, LIKE ASKED TO WEAR A MASK, THE FACT THAT THEIR KIDS LOST THE MONTHS OF LEARNING IN SCHOOL, AND IT STILL HANGS WITH THEM, YOU KNOW.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S, MORE THAN ANYTHING -- I THINK IT COPIES OUT OF THAT PIECE.

AND IT'S -- I THINK -- AND I'M JUST GOING TO SAY THIS, I THINK IT'S MOSTLY AMONG PERSONS WHO ARE LESS CONCERNED WITH OTHER PEOPLE THAN THEY ARE ABOUT THEMSELVES.

>> WITH THAT IN MIND, 15, 20 SENDS, REAL QUICKLY, ARE WE PREPARED FOR ANOTHER PANDEMIC?

>> WELL, IT DEPENDS.

>> DOES IT DEPEND, THOUGH?

>> WELL, IT DEPENDS.

>> WITH SCIENCE?

>> WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE HAD ANOTHER H1N1 LIKE 2009, 2010, I THINK -- I WOULD ANSWER THAT QUESTION, WE'RE BETTER PREPARED THAN WE WERE MEDICALLY, SCIENTIFICALLY, VACCINE DEVELOPMENT WISE AND SO FORTH WE'RE LESS PREPARED IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, GETTING PEOPLE TO BUY INTO THE PUBLIC HEALTH INTERVENTIONS THAT ARE CRITICAL TO SLOWING DOWN THE SPREAD.

>> ESPECIALLY SOMETHING THAT WE'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH.

WILL HUMBLE, ARIZONA HEALTH, YOU'VE BEEN ON HERE TALKING ABOUT COVID FOR FIVE YEARS NOW.

>> SINCE WE WERE HOMEBOUND, YEAH.

>> ALL RIGHT, TAKE CARE.

>> GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

A NEW ART EXHIBITION AT THE SCOTTSDALE CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS FEATURES TRADITIONAL UKRANIAN HAND EMBROIDERY.

THE EXHIBITION IS TITLED "EMBROIDERED WITH PAIN," AND IT AMPLIFIES THE VOICES OF SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN THE ONGOING WAR IN UKRAINE.

JOINING US NOW IS IRENE AMRINE, CO-FOUNDER OF "CACTUS AND TRYZUB," A UKRAINIAN VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION THAT IS CO-PRESENTING THE EXHIBITION.

WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> EMBROIDERED WITH PAIN.

DESCRIBE THIS EXHIBITION.

>> SO THIS EXHIBITION HAS BEEN ALREADY FEATURED IN UKRAINE IN MULL CITIES.

AND WE ARE BRINGING IT HERE TO ARIZONA.

IT'S LAUNCHING HERE IN ITS U.S. TOUR.

IN UKRAINE, THIS EXHIBIT KIND OF HAD THIS TWO-PROJECT MISSION.

ONE IS A TRIBUTE TO SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

SO THE TRAUMA IN OCCUPIED TERRITORY AT THE HANDS OF RUSSIAN SOLDIERS, AND HAVE FOUND -- BEEN BRAVE ENOUGH AND FOUND THE -- FOUND WITHIN THEMSELVES TO COME OUT AND SPEAK UP ABOUT IT.

AND IT ALSO IS A CALL TO ACTION TO OTHERS WHO HAVE -- MAY HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO THIS TRAUMA, BUT HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SPEAK UP ABOUT IT.

SO HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, OUR MISSION IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, AND IT'S TO BRING AWARENESS TO SEXUAL WAR CRIMES THAT ARE HAPPENING IN UKRAINE.

>> AND UKRAINIAN HAND EMBROIDERY HERE, THAT'S SYMBOLIC.

TALK TO US ABOUT WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT.

>> SO TALKING ABOUT TRAUMA, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE IN GENERAL, ESPECIALLY SEXUAL TRAUMA.

SOMETHING AS VIOLENT AS RAPE, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO TALK ABOUT AND TO COME FORWARD ABOUT, SO THIS PARTICULAR EXHIBIT IS USING THE LANGUAGE OF ART, THE LANGUAGE OF TRADITIONALLY UKRAINIAN EMBROIDERY TO TELL THE STORIES OF SURVIVING THE TRAUMA AND COMING OUT OF IT ON THE OTHER SIDE AND FINDING RESILIENCE AND LEARNING AND MOVING FORWARD FROM IT.

>> BECAUSE WHEN I WAS LOOKING INTO THIS, THIS CLOTH IS KNOWN -- IS IT A RSUHNIK, IS THAT WHAT IT'S CALLED.

>> YES, IT'S THE UKRAINIAN WORD FOR EMBROIDERED CLOTH, TOWEL, EMBROIDERED TOWEL.

AND IT'S A VERY TRADITIONAL PIECE OF UKRAINIAN CULTURE.

THE EMBROIDERED TOWELS ARE GIFTED TO PEOPLE FOR THEIR WEDDING.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT JUST HAS A LOT OF MEANING WITHIN OUR CULTURE ALL TOGETHER.

AND SO IT'S EMBROIDERY AS A WHOLE.

IT'S A UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE TO UKRAINIANS.

>> RIGHT.

BUT TO GET THAT UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE ACROSS, THIS EXHIBITION HAS LIKE INTERACTED ASPECTS TO IT?

>> IT DOES.

THE EXHIBIT ITSELF BRINGS FIVE CLOTHS TO US, AND THEIR STORIES -- THERE ARE ENCODED STORIES OF RESILIENCE AND SURVIVING SEXUAL TRAUMA.

AND THE COMPONENT -- YOU CAN SCAN A QR CODE THAT COMES WITH EACH OF THE RUSHNIKS AND IT WILL BRING UP THE STORY THAT'S ENCODED, AND IT WILL ALSO BRING UP THE DIFFERENT ORNAMENTS THAT ARE USED WITHIN THIS CLOTH, WITH THEN PIECE.

AND YOU CAN CLICK AND HOVER ON EACH OF THE ORNAMENTS, AND IT WILL BRING UP AND TELL YOU WHAT THE ORNAMENT MEANS AND HOW IT TIES INTO THAT STORY.

>> WOW.

HOW INTERESTING.

BEFORE YOU GO, CACTUS AND TRYZUB.

TALK TO US ABOUT THE ORGANIZATION.

>> WE'RE A VOLUNTEER INITIATIVE AND STARTED IN RESPONSE TO THE FULL SCALE INVASION OF UKRAINE BACK IN 2022.

OUR VOLUNTEER INITIATIVE KIND OF ACTS IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

WE DO A LOT OF POLITICAL ADVOCACY, JUST COMMUNICATING WITH OUR POLITICS WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO SUPPORT UKRAINE.

WE ALSO DO A LOT OF FUNDRAISING AND EVENTS, AWARENESS TO BRING ATTENTION TO UKRAINE.

>> AND LAST QUESTION, AS FAR AS EXHIBITION IS CONCERNED, WHAT DO YOU WANT FOLKS TO TAKE FROM IT?

>> WE WANT PEOPLE TO COME AND EXPERIENCE IT.

IT WILL BE IN SCOTTSDALE CENTER OF THE ARTS UNTIL AUGUST 3rd.

AND WE WANT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH UKRAINIAN PEOPLE ARE ENDURING RIGHT NOW AND HOW MUCH THEIR OVERCOME -- HOW MUCH THEY'RE OVERCOMING AND DAY IN AND DAY OUT, AND THEY'RE UNDER CONSTANT BOMBING AND SPECIFICALLY WITH SEXUAL TRAUMA, AGAIN, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO RECOVER, AND IT'S NOT JUST AFFECTING THE INDIVIDUAL THAT WAS SUBJECTED TO IT.

BUT IT'S THEIR FAMILY, THEIR SPOUSES.

AND WE JUST WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW MUCH UKRAINIAN PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING RIGHT NOW.

>> IRENE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING TO US TELL US ABOUT THE EXHIBITION.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.