♪♪ >> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO THIS "AZ VOTES 2026, CANDIDATES IN CONVERSATION," A SPECIAL EDITION OF "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

TONIGHT WE FEATURE A CONVERSATION BETWEEN CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR THE TWO OPEN SEATS ON THE FIVE-MEMBER ARIZONA CORPORATION COMMISSION, WHICH SETS UTILITY RATES AND OPERATES INDEPENDENTLY FROM THE JUDICIARY, THE LEGISLATURE, AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

OUR "CANDIDATES IN CONVERSATION" IS NOT A FORMAL DEBATE, IT'S AN OPEN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR GIVE AND TAKE BETWEEN CANDIDATES FOR ONE OF THE STATE'S MOST IMPORTANT OFFICES.

AS SUCH, INTERJECTIONS AND THE OCCASIONAL INTERRUPTION ARE ALLOWED, PROVIDED THAT ALL SIDES GET A FAIR SHAKE.

WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS.

JOINING US NOW FOR TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION, IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER, DEMOCRAT JONATHON HILL, CLARA PRATTE, ALSO A DEMOCRAT.

AND, REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT, KEVIN THOMPSON.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING TONIGHT.

WE SHOULD NOTE THAT WE REACHED OUT TO REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT RALPH HEAP, WHO IS ALSO RUNNING IN THIS RACE, BUT HE DECLINED TO PARTICIPATE.

ALL RIGHT, LET'S GET IT GOING HERE, JONATHAN I WILL START WITH YOU.

AND THE ROLE OF THE CORPORATION COMMISSION.

LET'S GO WITH A BALANCING ACT HEAR.

I WANT TO KNOW WHICH SIDE SHOULD GET MORE OF AN EMPHASIS.

PROTECTING RATE PAYERS OR PROTECT UTILITIES?

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

YOU KNOW, CORPORATION COMMISSION'S PRIMARY JOB IS TO STRIKE THAT VERY DELICATE BALANCE.

YOU KNOW, ON ONE HAND, WE NEED FINANCIALLY HEALTHY UTILITIES, WE HAVE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN UTILITIES FAIL.

WE DON'T WON THAT IN ARIZONA.

OWNER, THEIR PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY IS AND SHOULD BE PROTECTING RATE PAYERS.

YOU KNOW, THE AVERAGE ARIZONANS DON HAVE ALL THE RESOURCES OF THE UTILITY COMPANIES TO HELP ADVOCATE FOR THEM.

SO THAT'S THE CORPORATION COMMISSION'S JOB.

>> PRIMARY JOB FOR THE CORPORATION PRECIPITATION IS PROTECTING RATE PAYERS DO YOU AGREE?

>> I AGREE.

IT'S THAT FINE BALANCE, YOU KNOW, OF ENSURING THAT WE HAVE A HEALTHY UTILITY.

NOBODY WONS TO HAVE AN UNHEALTHY UTILITY.

YOU KNOW, LOOK NO FURTHER THAN OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR IN CALIFORNIA WITH PG.

AND "ARIZONA HORIZON" AND MAPS WITH THEM OVERTIME A FAILING TILT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE CITIZENS OF ARIZONA.

AND NOT IN THE BACKS OF THE RATE PAYERS WE NEAT NEED FOR FOCUS.

>> PRIMARY IS PROTECTION RATE PAYERS DUE AGREE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

TO JONATHON'S POINT THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME RESOURCES AT LARGE INVESTOR OWN YOU AND TILTS AND THEY ARE WHAT NOPE LIZ.

AND WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT.

AND THEY ARE GOING TO CLOCK OUT FOR THEIR SHAREHOLDERS IN THE BOTTOM LINE, DON'T NEED COMMISSIONERS DOING THAT FOR THEM.

OUR JOB TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TAKING CARING OF OUR RATE PAYERS.

>> LET ME DO A DIFFERENT COMPARISON HERE.

AND CLARA WILL START WITH YOU.

RELIABILITY.

IS RELIABILITY MORE IMPORTANT THAN AFFORDABILITY.

>> THAT'S A VERY DELAWARE CAN'T BALANCE AS WELL YOU KNOW BOTH.

WHERE WE HAVE A LOT OF SEDUCTION BUT I HOPE GETS ROBUST TODAY IS ABOUT WHAT IS JUSTIFIABLE, WAS FAIR IN ORDER TO KEEP RELIABILITY UP BE BE AFFORDABLE FOR RAY LATEERS.

>> RELIABILITY MORE IMPORTANT.

THEY BOTH IMPORTANT.

BUT RELIABILITY, KEY?

>> I WOULD SAY SO.

THERE WAS A POLL THAT WAS DONE SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHERE THEY LOOKED AT RELIABILITY.

THEY LISTED WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU AS A CONSUMER IN ARIZONA?

AND THEY LISTED DIFFERENT THINGS.

AND THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY WAS RELIABILITY.

WHICH WAS SURPRISING TO ME.

AS I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE AFFORD BILL.

BUT IT WAS ACTUALLY RELIABILITY.

PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY MORE TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON.

TO ENSURE THAT THEY HAVE RELIABILITY.

BUT AFFORDABILITY IS A VERY, VERY CLOSE SECOND.

AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALSO TAKING THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

>> IS AFFORDABILITY CLOSE SECOND OR PRIMARY FOR YOU?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU HAVE TO HAVE BOTH.

IF THE COMMISSION FAILS AT GETTING ONE OR THE OTHER THERE.

THEY FAILED AT THEIR JOB.

IF YOU DON'T ARE RELIABLE UTILITY YOU CAN'T OPERATE ECONOMICALLY IF IT'S NOT AFFORDABLE YOU CAN'T OPERATE EITHER WE NEAT BOTH.

>> KEVIN SHOULD UTILITIES BE PUSHED TO EMBRACE GREEN ENERGY?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

>> ABSOLUTELY NO?

>> NO.

I BELIEVE THE FREE MARKET SHOULD DICTATE WHAT IS THE BEST SOURCE OF ENERGY.

NOW, THIS COMMISSION, SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON IT, HAS BEEN TAKING THE ALL OF THE ABOVE APPROACH.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR UTILITIES ARE VESTED IN EVERY FORM OF GENERATION POSSIBLE.

TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON IN ARIZONA.

WE CAN'T PUT ALL OF OUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET.

RELY SOLELY ON NATURAL GAS AND YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE THE OIL FIELDS AND GAS FIELDS IN TEXAS, YOU KNOW, FREEZE UP DURING THE WINTER.

WINTER STORM.

WE SAW THE PRICE OF NATURAL GAS SKYROCKET.

AND THAT IMPACTS US HERE, SO IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THAT BALANCED PORTFOLIO.

>> SHOULD UTILITIES, CLARA, EMBRACE A PUSH TOWARDS CLEAN ENERGY?

>> 100 THEY SHOULD.

IT'S DIRECTLY TIED TO AFFORDABILITY.

RIGHT NOW SOLAR ENERGY IS THE CHEAPEST FORM OF ENERGY AVAILABLE ON THE MARKET.

SO AS AN ALL OF THE ABOVE ENERGY SOURCE PERSON, WE SHOULD BE CHOOSE THE ITEMS THAT ARE GOING TO BE DELIVERING AN EFFECTIVE AND SAFE AND COLINA FORDABLE ENERGY SOURCE FOR ARIZONANS, VERSUS BEING DEPENDENT ON IMPORTS COMING INTO OUR MARKET WITH SOLAR WE CAN BE GENERATING OUR OWN ENERGY AND BECOMING ENERGY INDEPENDENT AS A TIME WE NEED EXTRA ENERGY.

>> KEVIN, RESPOND TO THAT, THREES.

>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THE TECHNOLOGY IS QUITE THERE TO ALLOW US TO BE 100 PERCENT RENEWABLE.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT BROAD PORTFOLIO OF GENERATION TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON.

BATTERY TECHNOLOGY IS NOT WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE TO COVER NIGHTTIMES.

A PERFECT EXAMPLE LAST YEAR WE HAD A DUST STORM COME THROUGH AND HIT THE VALLEY IN 3:00 IN THE AFTERNOON WHEN THE PEAK STARTS WHEN THAT DUST STORM HIT A.P.S.

AND SRP COMBINED LOST OVER TO THOUSAND MEGAWATTS OF POWER.

THAT'S EQUIVALENT TO ONE PAOLO VERDE THAT WENT OFFLINE IN AN INSTANT AND THEY HAD TO GO TO NATURAL GAS TO KEEP IT UP AND RUNNING.

>> IF I COULD ADD I DON'T THINK ANYONE HERE IS SAYING WE SHOULD GO 100 PERCENT ANYTHING.

YOU KNOW, AS YOU POINTED OUT ARIZONA HAS A WONDERFUL MIX OF ENERGY SOURCES AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OUR STRENGTHS.

THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS GOING TO BE BEST FOR ARIZONA MOVING FORWARD?

AS WE -- ESPECIALLY CONTINUING TO TO BUILD OUT FOR THE GROWTH COMING IN AND WHEN IT COMES TO RENEWABLES SPECIFICALLY SOLAR, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE AN ABUNDANCE OF.

IF WE WERE TEXAS, SURE, USE NATURAL GAS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE.

WE SHOULD BE USING OUR BEST RESOURCE, THE SUNLIGHT HERE IN ARIZONA TO GENERATE WEALTH FOR US HERE IN ARIZONA.

>> DO RENEWABLES NEED BASE LOAD GENERATION?

THINGS LIKE COAL, NATURAL GAS, EVEN NUCLEAR?

OR THOSE THINGS REQUIRED IF YOU ARE PUSHING TOWARDS GREEN ENERGY?

>> RIGHT NOW.

LIKE WE HAVE ALREADY SAID YOU NEED A MIX.

BECAUSE YOU NEED BASE LOAD,, YOU NEED PEAK LOAD, YOU NEED SOMETHING TO BE DISPATCHED QUICK THERE ON KEVIN'S POINT WHEN YOU HAVE A FAILURE FOR WHATEVER REASON OR THE OTHER.

IT DOES TAKE A BALANCE.

AND I THINK THE CHIPS SHOULD DO THAT.

BUT THEY ALSO SHOULDN'T BE PUTTING THEIR THUMB ON THE SCALE.

THEY SHOULD NOT BE TRYING TO DICTATE ONE FORM OR THE OTHER OR DISINCENTIVIZE ONE FORM OVER THE OTHER.

>> ARE THEY DOING THAT?

>> I THINK THEY ARE.

THEY HAVE TAKEN AWAY THE SOLAR REBATES.

THEY HAVE TAKEN AWAY THE NET MEETERRING.

ANYONE WHO HAS SOLAR THEIR HOME IS GETTING PAID MUCH, MUCH LESS FOR THE EXCESS ENERGY THEY GENERATE.

AND THAT SHOWS INVESTORS THAT ARIZONA NOT A SERIOUS PLACE TO INVEST WHEN IT COMES TO RENEWABLE ENERGY.

>> CLARA.

>> ABSOLUTELY I.

>> HE WITH THAT.

ONE OF THE STRENGTHS IN ARIZONA IS THE SUNSHINE UNFORTUNATELY WE BROKE SERIOUS RECORDS LAST SUMMER, AUGUST 2nd, AND JULY 24th, BOTH INVESTOR OWNS UTILITIES HERE IN THE STATE, EXCEEDED THE POWER THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO GENERATE AND WERE ONLY ABLE TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON AND KEEP FROM BLACKOUTS AND BROWNOUTS BECAUSE THEY HAD RESERVES.

NOW TO ME, THAT SAYS WE OUGHT TO BE BACKFILLING WITH EVERY ENERGY SOURCE WE CAN.

AND AGAIN, SOLAR IS THE LEAST EXPENSIVE OPTION AND THE QUICKEST TO MARKET.

>> THE IMPRESSION THAT THE COMMISSION DOES PUT ITS THUMB ON THE SCALE FOR THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION, HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> I WOULD SAY WE DON'T OF I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE LOOKED AT AND THE DATA THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT SAID THAT RATE PAYERS WERE SUBSIDIZE AGO RATE PAYERS TO HAVE SOLAR ON THEIR HOUSE WE DIDN'T FEEL THAT WAS FAIR.

AND SPECIFICALLY, BECAUSE IT WASN'T HELPING THE PEOPLE THAT IT WAS INTENDED TO HELP WHICH IS YOUR LOW AND FIXED INCOME INDIVIDUALS.

AND SO IF WE REALLY WANT THOSE FOLKS TO HAVE AND EMBRACE RENEWABLES BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE ONLY PEOPLE PURCHASING ROOFTOP SOLAR ARE THE MIDDLE AND UPPER MIDDLE CLASS INDIVIDUALS THAT CAN AFFORD IT.

AND IT'S THE LOW INCOME AND FIXED INCOME FOLKS THAT ARE SUBSIDIZING THAT.

>> JONATHAN, RESPOND?

>> SO THE LOW INCOME, USERS, THE CUSTOMERS ARE SUCH A CONCERN TO YOU, THEN WHY DID YOU REPEAL ALL OF THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY STANDARDS?

THOSE PROGRAMS SPECIFICALLY HELP PEOPLE LOW INCOME, TO WEATHERIZE THEIR HOUSES BETTER, TO IMPROVE THEIR APPLIANCES, TO DO THE THINGS THAT WILL ULTIMATELY DRIVE THEIR UTILITY BILLS DOWN THAT OTHERS CAN AFFORD EASILY BUT THE LOW INCOME CAN'T.

SO IF THAT'S A CERTAINLY WHY DID YOU REPEAL THOSE?

>> I WOULD LOVE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

BECAUSE THE -- THERE WERE PROGRAMS IN PLACE THAT, YOU KNOW, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM HAD BEEN IN PLACE FOR, YOU KNOW, TWO OR THREE DECADES.

IT WAS JUST ON CRUISE CONTROL.

NOBODY WAS REALLY PAYING ATTENTION TO IT.

WE WERE SUBSIDIZING HOME BUILDERS TO INSTALL ENERGY EFFICIENT APPLIANCES.

CAN YOU EVEN FIND A NONENERGY EFFICIENT APPLIANCE NOWADAYS?

NO.

BUT WHY ARE WE PAYING HOUSING -- THE HOUSING DEVELOPERS OVER $250 MILLION A YEAR HE TO INSTALL ENERGY EFFICIENT APPLIANCES?

SO WHAT WE DID IS WE LOOKED AT IT AND SAID THINGS LIKE SHADE TREES, THEY ARE NOT FREE.

PEOPLE WERE PAYING FOR RATE PAYERS ARE PAYING FOR THE SHADE TREES.

A.P.S.

WAS CHARGING THEIR RATE PAYERS IT GOES INTO THEIR RATES THEY WERE PAYING OVER $84 MILLION A YEAR FOR ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN VSM PROGRAMS.

>> LET'S GET A RESPONSE THAT.

>> I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, SURE.

THERE'S PROGRAMS THAT ARE INNING EVENING TIFF OR OUTGROWN THEIR USEFULNESS.

BUT THAT'S HOW YOU GO IN AND ADJUST.

YOU DON'T THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER AND GET RID OF THE STANDARDS WHOLESALE.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DID, TOO, THOUGH, IS WE PUT THE ONUS BACK ON THE UTILITY TO BRING FORTH PROGRAMS THAT ACTUALLY MOVE THE NEEDLE.

AND SO WE GOT RID OF ALL OF THE PROGRAMS OTHER THAN THE WEATHER STRIPPING, INSULATION, WINDOWS, HIGH SERIES HVAC THINGS THAT ACTUALLY MAKE AN IMPACT ON PEOPLE'S BILLS.

>> CLARA, DID THE EFFICIENCY STANDARDS DRIVE UP UNNECESSARY COSTS?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DATA AND YOU LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF DOLLARS THAT YOU ARE SAVING PER CUSTOMER IT'S VERY LOW.

TALK LESS THAN $10, THE LONG-TERM IMPACT OF THOSE ENERGY EFFICIENCY STANDARDS WERE REALLY IMPACTFUL IN SAVING MONEY IN THE LONG-TERM.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION OF WHAT IS EFFECTIVE AND WHAT IS NOT.

AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THESE PROGRAMS TALKING ABOUT RENEWABLE ENERGY STANDARDS OR EFFICIENCY STANDARDS, YOU TWEAK THEM.

YOU GO IN AND YOU FIX THEM AND YOU MAKE THEM BETTER EVENING YOU DON'T JUST, YOU KNOW, THROW THE WHOLE THING OUT AND SAY, WELL, IT'S NOT WORKING.

MAYBE IT'S NOT WORKING, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU GO AND FIX WHAT IS WORKING WHAT ISN'T WORKING.

>> KEVIN, DID STANDARDS HELP STABILIZE UTILITY BILLS?

DID STANDARDS HELP STABILIZE GRID RELIABILITY?

DID STANDARDS HELP REDUCE HARMFUL POLLUTION?

THOSE WHO WERE BEHIND THOSE STANDARDS SAY THAT THEY DID SUCCEED IN DOING THOSE THINGS.

DID THEY AND IF SO, WHY WAS IT STILL NECESSARY TO GET RID OF THOSE STANDARDS?

>> YEAH, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT IT THE PEOPLE THAT WERE BEHIND THAT WERE THE PEOPLE THAT WERE MAKING MONEY OFF OF THOSE PROGRAMS.

AGAIN, IT WASN'T HELPING THE PEOPLE THAT WERE -- THAT IT WAS INTENDED TO HELP.

WHICH IS OUR LOW AND FIXED INCOME INDIVIDUALS ACROSS ARIZONA.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT -- WERE MARKETS -- I KNOW YOU ARE BIG WITH MARKETS, WERE MARKETS DISTORTED BECAUSE OF THESE STANDARDS AND THUS RATE PAYERS HURT?

>> I DON'T BELIEVE THAT MARKETS WERE IMPACTED, NECESSARILY ON THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND DSM PROGRAM IF YOU LOOK AT THE ELECTRIC MARKETS IN GENERAL.

EDAMN OR MARKETS PLUS OR PURPOSING FROM CALIFORNIA.

I DON'T THINK THEY IMPACTED BY EE.

DSM.

>> FORCED ENERGY MANDATES REQUIREMENT AND SUCH, ARE THEY GOOD FOR ARIZONANS IN STATE?

WE ARE TALKING MANDATES?

ARE THEY GOOD OR CAN YOU WORK BE FLEXIBLE IN WHAT YOU ARE GOING FOR AS FAR AS YOUR GOALS?

>> SOME FLEXIBILITY IS BENEFICIAL BUT BENEFICIAL TO PUT OUT GUIDE POSTS.

YOU TILTS NEED TO PLAN 10, 20, 30, FOUR-YEAR TIME SCALES WE NEED TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE FROM THE COMMISSION WHAT DOES ARIZONA NEED IN THE FREQUENT 20, 30, 40 YEARS AND GUIDE THE DEVELOPMENT THAT I DIRECTION THAT'S BEN FOIBLE.

>> EVERYBODY WHAT WOULD THE ROLE OF GREEN ENERGY BE IN ARIZONA MOVING FORWARD IN.

>> IT'S FAST TO DEPLOY AS CLARA SAID EARLIER.

WE ARE IN A MARKET THAT WE NEED TO BRING IN MORE ENERGY.

EXPONENTIAL BOTH IN AREA.

IT'S CHEAPER IN THE SHORT-TERM AND LONG-TERM YOU CAN TALK ABOUT NUCLEAR AND OTHER FORMS OF GENERAL RACE BEING IN THE NEAR TERM FOR THE WILL HE DID HE PLAYING IS RENEWABLES.

>> THAT REALLY ADVERTISE IN THE TIME OF A.I.

AND DATA CENTER.

>> YOU HAVE TO PLAN FOR FUTURE GROWTH.

AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT RELIABILITY THIS IS IN MY OPINION VERY SHORT SIDED TO BE DEPENDENT ON IMPORTED OIL AND GAS WHEN WE COULD BE GENERATING OUR OWN ELECTRICITY HERE.

I ALSO THINK WE'VE GOT SOME REALLY OUTDATED TALKING POINTS BROUGHT UP TODAY ABOUT THE RELIABILITY OF SOLAR INFRASTRUCTURE.

BATTERIES RIGHT NOW ARE LASTING OVER EIGHT HOURS ON A CHARGE FROM A FULL DAY.

ANYBODY WHO LIVES IN ARIZONA SKIPS OUTSIDE AND YOU GOT AN ABUNDANCE OF SHINE, WE OUGHT TO UTILIZE WHAT WE HAVE FOR CHEAPEST AS WELL AS CLEANEST ENERGY FIRST.

>> ARE WE NOT DOING THAT?

>> WE ARE DOING THAT.

ALL OF OUR UTILITIES ARE VESTED IN RENEWABLES WITH BATTERY YOU ARE SEEING A LOT OF SOLAR AND WIND DEVELOPERS ARE COMING BACK.

AND RETROFITTING THEIR AREAS OR THEIR DEVELOPMENTS WITH BATTERIES.

SO OUR UTILITIES ARE USING THE BASE LOAD GENERATION DURING THE DAY, WHICH IS NOT WHEN WE REALLY NEED ALL OF THE DEMAND.

OUR PEAK TIME IS FROM 3-7:00 P.M.

THAT'S WHEN THE UTILITIES ARE RAMPING UP THEIR BASE LOAD GENERATION AND THEN THEY ARE DUMPING THE BATTERY STORAGE INTO THE GRID.

>> IF YOU HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN, WOULD YOU STILL REPEAL THOSE EFFICIENCY STANDARDS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> IF YOU WERE ON THE COMMISSION, WOULD EITHER ONE YOU HAVE REPEALED THOSE EFFICIENCY STANDARDS?

>> NO.

I WOULD HAVE GONE IN AND TWEAKED THEM AND KEPT WHAT WAS WORKING AND GOT RID OF WHAT WASN'T.

>> JOHN JONATHON?

>> COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

>> LET'S TALK WATER HERE.

CLARA STARTING WITH YOU THE PROPOSED CUTS TO ARIZONA.

THE IMPACT ON PRIVATE WATER CULLS.

HOW WOULD YOU, AS A COMMISSIONER, JUDGE RATE INCREASES THAT WOULD NO DOUBT COME IF NOT SHORTFALLS HAPPEN?

>> THEY WILL HAPPEN.

AND UNFORTUNATELY AS WE HAVE SEEN WITH THE ALLOCATION AND SEVERE CUTS TO ARIZONA WE SEE IT COMING.

IT'S LIKE STANDING ON A RAILROAD WITH A SLOW-MOVING TRAIN.

HERE IS WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.

WE HAVE TO SUPPORT THESE SMALLER WATER COMPANIES.

UNFORTUNATELY, A LOT OF THEM HAVE BACKLOGS OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND MAINTENANCE FEES THAT THEY HAVE NOT APPROPRIATELY CHARGED FOR IN THE SHORT-TERM.

WHICH MEANS THAT THESE USERS ARE GOING TO HAVE ASTRONOMICAL 300 PERCENT RATE INCREASES ESSENTIALLY AND SEEN IT IT IN SOME SMALL WATER UTILITIES.

WE NEED TO WORK COLLABORATIVELY WITH THE SMALL WATER UTILITIES TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE HELPING THEM GET THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE UPGRADES AND HELPING THEN SURVIVE WHILE STILL MAKING SURE THAT RATE PAYERS ARE NOT GOING TO BE YOU KNOW, FORCED OUT OF THESE AREAS.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT'S BEING DONE TO A SATISFACTORY DEGREE RIGHT NOW ON THE CORPORATION?

>> NO.

I THINK IT'S NOT A FAILURE OF ANY ONE COMMISSION.

I THINK THIS IS 32 YEARS IN THE MAKING.

THAT IT HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, OUR PROBLEM IS THAT WE CAN'T TELL IT A UTILITY TO COME THIS FOR A RATE CASE, THEY HAVE TO COME IN ON THEIR OWN.

WE ARE TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO COME IN.

WE HAVE RATE -- WE HAVE UTILITY THAT HAVEN'T BEEN IN FOR OVER 30 YEARS AND THAT TELLS YOU THEY ARE NOT INVESTING IN THEIR UTILITY AND THAT'S DANGEROUS.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE WATER QUALITY STANDARDS, YOU HAVE A LOT OF OUR SMALLER WATER UTILITIES THAT HAVE ASTRONOMICAL LEAKAGE, 27% INDUSTRY STANDARD IS 10%, THAT'S WATER THAT THE RATE PAYERS HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR GOING RIGHT BACK INTO THE GROUND.

SO WE NEED THESE UTILITIES TO INVEST IN THEIR UTILITY TO ENSURE THEY ARE PROVIDING SAFE, POTABLE DRINKING WATER.

>>> THAT BE PART OF THE WAY YOU JUDGE WATER RATE INCREASE REQUESTS?

>> THAT'S HOW WE HAVE BEEN DOING IT SO FAR.

IS ENSURING THAT WE ARE BRINGING -- WE EVEN STOOD UP A SMALL WATER OMBUDSMAN OFFICE SPECIFICALLY TO HELP THAT.

>> JONATHON JONATHON.

>> THANKS FOR BRINGING IT UP THE SMALL WATER COMPANIES THROUGHOUT ARIZONA HAVE BEEN STRESSING A LOT OF OUR, PARTICULARLY RURAL CUSTOMERS.

AND LIKE YOU SAID, MANY OF THEM HAVE JUST NOT COME INTO THE RATE CASE IN DECADES THEY ARE FAR BEHIND TIMES ON MAINTENANCE, DEVELOP, INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THE COMMISSION NEEDS TO DO MORE TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM TO COME IN.

BECAUSE SOMETIMES IT'S SO EXPENSIVE BRING A RATE CASE.

YOU KNOW.

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IF NOT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

IF YOU ARE A LITTLE MOM AND POP WATER COMPANY YOU CAN'T AFFORD DO THAT.

AND SO I THINK THE COMMISSION NEEDS TO TAKE A VERY PROACTIVE STEP TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T END UP, YOU KNOW, GOING EXCESSIVELY LONG WITHOUT RATE CASES AND THEN SHOCKING CUSTOMERS ALL OF A SUDDEN.

>> BUT I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS -- ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE STUDENT THE ON OMBUDSMAN'S OFFICE SPECIFICALLY TO HELP THEM, GUIDE THEM THROUGH THE RATE CASE.

HE WILL ACTUALLY DO THE RATE CASE FOR THEM SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO SPEND MILLIONS OR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON ATTORNEYS FEES.

>> GETTING CLOSE TO THE END HERE.

WHICH & CLOSING STATEMENTS, SO MUCH TO GO OVER HERE.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, KEVIN, IN PARTICULAR, IS IT OKAY FOR A COMMISSIONER TO MEET WITH FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE BUSINESS IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION?

>> IF IT'S IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION UNDER EX PARTE, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

OTHERWISE IT'S THINK ABOUT I THINK WE WOULD BE DERELICT IN OUR DUTIES BY NOT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE INVESTMENT COMMUNITY LOOKING AT WHAT WE WANT TO COME IN TO ARIZONA.

WE WANT NEW YORK AND WALL STREET TO INVEST IN YOU ARE UTILITIES WE WANT THEM TO HAVE ACCESS TO CAPITAL AND CHEAP CAPITAL ON TOP OF THAT.

>> BUT THERE HAVE BEEN CONCERNS THAT YOU ARE A BUSINESS CONSULTANT AND A YOU ARE A LITTLE TOO CLOSE TO CLIENTS THAT ARE TOO CLOSELY ALIGNED WITH CORPORATION COMMISSION.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT IN.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT KRIS MAYES DID THE EXACT SAME THING WHEN SHE WAS THE COMMISSIONER AND THE CHAIR.

SHE WENT TO NEW YORK AS WELL.

SO YOU KNOW, I -- AS A CONSULTANT IN MY BUSINESS SIDE I HAD NEVER HAD A CLIENT THAT WOULD COME IN FRONT OF COMMISSION.

>> CAN YOU BE IMPARTIAL UNDER SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES, DO YOU THINK?

>> I DON'T THINK YOU CAN.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD A SITTING COMMISSIONER BE MEETING WITH FINANCIAL INTERESTS BEHIND THE INVENTORS OF THE UTILITIES.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, ALL OF THE REGULAR RATE PAYERS THE CUSTOMERS OUT THERE THEY DON'T GET TO MEET THIS THOSE PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE MISSION SHE DON'T HAVE SPECIAL ACCESS FOR THE COMMISSIONERS TO GIVE THEM SPECIAL ACCESS TO DECISION MAKERS WHO ARE ELECTED, I THINK IS ALWAYS INAPPROPRIATE.

>> CLARA, IS IT OKAY TO REASSURE INVESTORS OF THE STABILITY OF PARTICULAR UTILITIES IN.

>> YES.

AND I THINK YOU DO THAT UNDER SUNSHINE.

YOU DO THAT IN PUBLIC.

YOU DO THAT THROUGH THE PROCESS THAT'S LAID OUT BEFORE US.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ECHO WHAT DR.

HILL SAYS YOU DON'T MEET BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND COMPRA MICE YOUR IMPARTIALITY BY MEETING WITH THESE ENTITIES.

>> DO YOU THINK YOUR IMPARTIALITY WAS FROM COMPROMISED?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

IN FACT WE HAVE TO SIGN A DISCLOSURE COMING IN THAT WE WON'T TALK ABOUT ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE BEFORE THE OR ANYTHING THAT'S UNDER EX PARTE.

AND THOSE GUYS ARE PRETTY SMART.

THEY PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS UNDER EX PARTE.

AND LOOK, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE FEC COULD REVOKE THEIR LICENSE IF THEY WERE TO CROSS THAT LINE INTO EX PARTE CONVERSATIONS.

AND SO THEY ARE VERY AWARE, THEY ARE VERY COGNIZANT OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ARIZONA AND THEY WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE COMMISSION DOING?

HOW IS THE COMMISSION ACTING GOING FORWARD?

IS ARIZONA A GOOD PLACE FOR US TO PUT OUR MONEY?

>> ALL RIGHT, LAST QUESTION.

THIS HAS TO BE REALLY QUICKLY, CLARA STARTING WITH YOU.

THE CORPORATION COMMISSION, IS IT SUFFICIENTLY, AS IT STANDS, SERVING THE PEOPLE OF ARIZONA?

>> NO.

IT IS NOT.

BECAUSE IT HAS NOT ACTED IN THE BEST INTEREST OF ARIZONA RATE PAYERS.

TO DATE.

WE HAVE SOME OF THE HIGHEST SUMMER -- IN FACT THE HIGHEST SUMMER UTILITY BILLS IN THE STATE RIGHT NOW.

AND I THINK THAT'S A FAILURE OF THE COMMISSION TO ADEQUATELY CONSIDER AFFORDABILITY AND ADEQUATELY BALANCE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL DOUBT.

>> I KEEP IT QUICK.

IS THE CORPORATION COMMISSION SUFFICIENTLY SERVING THE PEOPLE OF ARIZONA?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

BUT I THINK THE BEAUTY OF THIS OFFICE IS THAT IT'S NOT UP TO US.

IT'S UP TO THE VOTERS.

THE VOTERS NEED TO LOOK AT THEIR POWER BILL, THEIR WATER BILL, GAS BILL AND THEY DID TO THE DECIDE ON NOVEMBER 3rd WHETHER THINGS ARE FAIR OR NOT.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THERE IS AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY ADMINISTRATION REPORT THAT JUST CAME OUT.

SHOWING ARIZONA HAS THE 17th CHEAPEST ELECTRICITY PER KILOWATT HOUR IN THE NATION, OUR USAGE IS 25% HIGHER IN THE SUMMER THAN ANY OTHER STATE BUT WE ARE 17 -- RANGED NUMBER 17 IN THE NATION FOR THE CHEAPEST POWER.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> THANK YOU.

GREAT CONVERSATION I TIME FOR CLOSING STATEMENTS GOING IN ALPHABET AL ORDER WE START WITH JONATHON HILL.

>> WELL, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR HAVING US THANKS TO THE VIEWERS TUNE FLAG TO LEARN ABOUT THE VERY IMPORTANT OFFICE.

YOU KNOW, TO COMMISSIONER THOMPSON ZAPS LAST POINT SAYING ARIZONA'S ENERGY IS SO CHEAP OPEN YOUR BILL.

AND ON NOVEMBER 3rd YOU GET TO DECIDE WHETHER THAT'S CHEAP OR WHETHER THAT'S STRESS YOUR BUDGET.

AND YOU GET TO DECIDE WHO IS MAKING THESE DECISIONS NOW ON THE CORPORATION COMMISSION AND WE REALLY NEED INFORMED VOTERS WHEN IT COMES TO THIS OFFICE.

IT'S A VERY COMPLEX OFFICE AND PEOPLE REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH IT AFFECTS THEIR DAILY LIVES.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND NOW THE CLOSING STATEMENT FROM CLARA PRATTE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME HERE TONIGHT IT'S BEEN AN HONOR AND A PRIVILEGE.

YOU KNOW, I GREW OUT NAVAJO NATION IN A HOME THAT DID NOT HAVE RUNNING WATER ARE OWE WILL BE TRIS TISSOT WHEN I TALK ABOUT UTILITIES ACCESS AND AFFORDABILITY IT'S NOT BECAUSE I AM DOING IT FOR LIKES I AM DOING IT BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HAVE TO DECIDE BETWEEN HAULING WATER, USING KEROSENE OR KEEPING FOOTE FOOD ON THE TABLE THAT'S THE CHASE MANY ARIZONANS ARE FACING TODAY.

THEY HAVE A CHOICE IN NOVEMBER.

TO DECIDE IF THEY LIKE THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING OR NOT.

AND WE HAVE HAD ONE PARTY IN CONTROL OF THIS INSTITUTION FOR THE LAST 32 YEARS.

AND I THINK THAT THEY HAVE UTTERLY FAILED IN THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT RATE PAYERS.

AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SERVING YOU ON THE COMMISSION.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND NOW THE CLOSING STATEMENT FROM KEVIN THOMPSON.

>> THANK YOU, TED, THANK YOU ALL FOR TUNING IN TONIGHT.

IT'S BEEN AN A HONOR TO SERVE YOU OVER THE LAST 3 1/2, ALMOST FOUR YEARS.

I CUT OVER $1 BILLION FROM THE UTILITIES AND HELP THEM ACCOUNTABLE SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION.

WE ARE KEEPING UTILITIES IN THEIR LANE.

ENSURING THAT OUR WATER IS SAFE AND POTABLE.

THAT WE ARE PROVIDING YOU EVERY SINGLE DAY.

WE ARE DOING THE BEST THAT WE CAN WITH WHAT WE HAVE.

I KNOW THAT IT FEELS TOUGH BEING YOU KNOW, WITH 333% INFLATION, THAT THE ADMINISTRATION, PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS PUT IN PLACE BUT WE ARE DOING OUR BEST TO CONTROL THOSE COSTS.

OUR UTILITIES ARE NOT IMMUNE TO THOSE TYPES OF INFLATIONARY DEVICES AND SO, WE ARE DOING OUR BEST WITH WHAT WE HAVE TO TRY TO KEEP OUR UTILITY RATES AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.

SO I AM ASKING YOU TO REELECT ME AND PUT ME BACK IN OFFICE.

AND MY NAME IS KEVIN THOMPSON, ARIZONA CORPORATION COMMISSION.

THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT, CANDIDATES, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

OUR NEXT CANDIDATES IN CONVERSATION IS SET FOR THIS THURSDAY, WE'LL HEAR FROM THE CANDIDATES FOR ARIZONA'S FOURTH CONGRESS DISTRICT.

DEMOCRATIC INNING COMPANY BRENT GREAT STAG TAN AND REPUBLICAN ZUHDI JASSER, THAT'S THURSDAY RIGHT LEER ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

AND THAT IT FOR NOW BEING I AM TED SIGNS THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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