Good evening, and welcome to Arizona Horizon.

I'm Ted Simons.

We begin tonight with AZ Votes: Candidates in Conversation as we hear from a candidate running in the Democratic primary for Arizona's fourth Congressional District.

Kai Newkirk is that candidate.

He's co-chair of the Democratic Party's Progressive Council.

And we should note that the incumbent candidate in the CD4 Democratic primary, Congressman Greg Stanton, was invited to participat tonight, but he did not accept any of the dates offered.

Kai Newkirk, good to have you here.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Newkirk: Great to be with you.

Thanks for having me on.

Simons: You're a Democrat, and you're running against a Democratic incumbent.

Why?

Newkirk: I think that we're in a time of crisis and emergency for our country.

We are living under an authoritarian tyrant.

We've had masked agents in the streets shooting down Americans.

We've got billionaires with more wealth than entire nations.

While the basic costs of living become harder and harder for most of us to afford.

We have criminal wars happening and genocide abroa that our nation is complicit in.

And I'm running to flip the tables of what I believe is a corrupt and authoritarian status quo.

And unfortunately, I think our incumbent has not stood up to that, has not fought it, and in some cases has been complicit in that.

And I think most Democrats disagree with that.

And they deserve a choice.

Simons: How could he have been and could be more aggressive?

I mean, it sounds as though you're saying he's not aggressive enough in opposing the President and the administration.

Newkirk: Yes, on many fronts.

I mean, last December, after a year of high crimes and misdemeanors, in my view, Greg Stanton voted against impeaching Trump.

And, I think that's unacceptable.

I've been leading in the streets, organizing protests, pushing back in every way that we can.

Since Trump took office again and the incumbent joined, I think the first time he joined any Arizonans in the streets was last June after an emergency unfolding, for many months.

And in terms of I.C.E., he voted for the Lincoln Riley Act that gave more power to I.C.E.

to detain and deport immigrants.

Other members of Congres have apologized for that vote.

He hasn't yet.

And just the other day, he voted to give more power to I.C.E.

again to carry out surveillance without any safeguards.

Simons: Both U.S.

senators, Democratic senators, also voted for the Lincoln Riley Act.

Newkirk: Yes, I think they were wrong as well.

Attorney General Kris Mayes agrees with me.

As well as Yassamin Ansari and Adelita Grijalva.

And they voted against this bill that Stanton just voted for.

Sometimes, you know, there's disagreements in our party, but it's a Democratic party.

We have debates, and we're going to legislate these issues.

And the vast majority of Democrats agree with me on these questions.

Simons: The Lincoln Riley Act, in particular, undocumented immigrants who are arrested and charged or convicted of property and or violent crimes, they should be detained.

That is what the act calls for.

Should they not be detained?

Newkirk: Well, what it does it makes it mandatory detention.

Not only that, but it's if even if you're just arrested or charged.

So it was a major ste in the erosion of due process, which now we've see go to the extremes of citizens and green card holders and visa holders and veterans being detained, being deported, being abused, and in some cases injured and killed.

And this was the first fight around whether we were going to go in that direction of authoritarian mass deportation or uphold the values of the Statue of Liberty.

And Stanton was a minor, was in a minority of Democrats who voted for that and gave a green light to Trump for that authoritarian mass deportation campaign.

It's unacceptable.

Simons: Not detaining these folks, not mandatory detaining of these folks, is that what Democrats i this district are looking for?

Newkirk: Absolutely.

They're looking for someone who's going to stand up to the abuses from I.C.E.

and end them once and for all.

In my view, this agency which was only founded in 2003 after 9/11 to take a counterterrorism approach to the civil matter of immigration, has proven itself to be a disaster.

It's a threat not only to the lives, not only to our rights, but to the lives of American citizens as well as immigrants.

I think it needs to be disbanded.

Abolished.

We need to restructure how we do immigration enforcement as well as law to put humanity at the center.

Simons: And but again, you think that the Democrats in this district would go along with something like that.

The general election: do you think the general election, again, this is CD1.

This is a relatively moderate but left-leaning district.

There are more Republicans than Democrats registered in this district.

You think that's going to fly?

Newkirk: Absolutely.

Because people have been horrified about what has happened.

I've talked to Trump voters myself who've said, I didn't vote for this.

They were concerned about disorder at the border.

They wanted something to change there, but they never wanted this kind of authoritarian and violent interior enforcement.

And we've got polling as well that shows us that that's why Trump has backed off, because people have been standing up and organizing here, in Minneapolis and around the country, but also they've seen the backlash.

Nobody wanted to see mother dragged away from their children crying and screaming.

We trust undocumented immigrants in our country to care for our children, to care for our elders, to grow and serve our food, to build our homes, and yet somehow not to have the full rights, be protected in this country and be equal citizens.

I think that's wrong and needs to change.

And most Democrat and most Americans are with me.

Simons: You mentioned Congressman Stanton complicit with the genocide in Gaza.

Before we get too deeply into that, what should the United States have done in response to the October 7th Hamas attacks on Israelis?

Well, we should have been in solidarity with those that were harmed.

And we should have tried to help get the hostages out.

But we should never hav given military aid to a nation that was going to carry out war crimes upon war crimes, crimes against humanity, and now genocide.

The war crimes that Hamas carried out on October 7th were not a justification for more of that.

And when the International Criminal Court, the same one that most Democrats and Americans lauded when they indicted Putin for war crimes, right, when they indicted Hama leaders and Benjamin Netanyahu, and Yoav Gallant of the Israeli government for war crimes, crimes against humanity, Stanton, do you know what he did?

He didn't vote to sanction the war criminals or do something like that.

He voted to sanction the International Criminal Court.

In my view, that's wrong.

And we should not be sending money to get bombs that are crushing and killing children.

Simons: He also supports a ceasefire and he has supported a two-state solution.

Newkirk: Yeah, well, I was part of a delegation to his office and a meeting with Palestinian and Jewish constituents pushing him on that.

Months later, he came out with a weak and conditional call for a ceasefire.

But time and time again, he has not only voted for unconditional military aid to Israel, no matter how many times they violate our laws, including the Leahy Law, which says we can't give military aid to nations that violate human rights, violating international law a well, and endangering Americans.

13 American soldiers, I believe, have died in the war in Iran.

Now, we would not be in that war if not for Netanyahu and the Israeli government pushing us to be in there.

And he has been, I think you're right, actively complicit in a genocide and war crimes and Democratic voters have had it with that.

They want us to be consistent.

Simons: I need to stop you right there.

I did not say, I did not say that.

You said that he was actively complicit in genocide.

You also mentioned that you were protesting in certain spots.

You have a history of protest, and you've been arrested up to 30 times.

Is that true?

Newkirk: Over 25 times.

Simons: Ok.

Is that a point of pride for you?

And again, is that somethin that voters, Democratic voters now in congressional, in this, this particular district, that they want to see from their representative in Washington?

Newkirk: Well, it's been, those arrests were nonviolent civil disobedience.

So to me, every one of them is a badge of honor, not a mark of shame.

My favorite memorial on our National Mall is the one to Doctor King.

He was arrested over 29 times in acts of nonviolent civil disobedience and, direct action.

Dolores Huerta, recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, 25 times as well.

And so for me, the question to someone like Stanton or anybody has an issue is that is, well, where have you been in the crisis and the injustice that's been happening in your country?

This is a tool that has been used to win women's suffrage, to end Jim Crow, to win the right to organize for workers or DACA for dreamers.

And I've used it alongside many other to fight for justice and peace.

And I'm proud of that.

And I've been, I've bee very pleased to see the response from Democrats that we talked to on their door, on the doors, who are excited about that, because they want someone who's going to fight and stand up to Trump's authoritarianism.

And I have a record o standing up to injustice, even being willing to put my freedom and my safety on the line.

Simons: Do you have a history o compromise?

What do you think?

What do you think of the word compromise?

Because if you were to go to Congress, you're not going t get your way in a lot of ways.

And you have to work with other, do you work well with other people and can you compromise?

Newkirk: Absolutely.

I love, the nonviolent tradition that I'm rooted in is fierce and standing up against injustice and saying, no, I'll risk even my safety my freedom, potentially my life.

But it always has an open hand to say we're seeking not to destroy anyone.

We don't hate anyone.

We hate the sin, not the sinner, and we ultimately seek reconciliation.

And so I've worked with Republicans and many different campaigns that I've part of.

I've worked with peopl that disagree with me on issues.

I love that because it's an opportunity to connect and find our common ground as human beings and people who share interests.

And right now, you might be a Republican you might have voted for Trump, but your utility rates are going up.

I want to freeze utility rates.

Your grocery prices are going up.

I want to ban grocery price gouging.

You are getting screwed over fighting with your health insurance company when you're sick.

I want Medicare for all, s we have common ground to build.

I want to bring costs down and fight for change for all working class people.

Simons: Last question, real quickly because we're running out of time here.

You say he's complicit in genocide.

You say tha he's not standing up to I.C.E.

He's not standing up to Trump.

You say he's not standing up to anything.

He's not aggressive enough here.

Will you support him, Congressman Stanton, if he wins the primary?

Newkirk: I've been clear about this.

We need an antifascist coalition.

We have to stop Trump from having a majority.

If he wins the primary, I will back him.

I would expect him to do the same for me.

It's a solid blue seat.

Whoever wins the primar will win the general election.

We don't take it for granted, but we're confident in it.

And I hope that he would sa the same to support me as well.

Simons: Kai Newkirk CD4 congressional candidate, good to have you here.

Thanks for joining us.

And our next Candidates in Conversation will be Tuesday, June 9th, as we hear from candidates running in the Democratic primary for Congressional District 1.

That's Tuesday, June 9th.

And a reminder, all episodes of Candidates in Conversation are live streamed on YouTube at AZPBS Now and ca be viewed as well at azpbs.org.