RICK: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, INCLUDING GOVERNOR KATIE HOBBS' PICK FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

RICK: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON," I'M RICK DEBRUHL SITTING IN FOR TED SIMONS.

FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

JOINING ME TONIGHT, JEREMY DUDA OF AXIOS PHOENIX.

MARK BRODIE OF KJZZ RADIO AND HOWIE FISCHER OF CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES.

GENTLEMEN, GREATLY APPRECIATE IT.

TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT SEEMS LIKE IT HAPPENED A LONG, LONG TIME AGO, BUT RELEVANT, THAT'S THE FACT THAT KATIE HOBBS, OUR GOVERNOR, NOW HAS A RUNNING MATE FOR HER TO BE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT WHO THAT IS AND WHY, WHY THE HECK DO WE HAVE A LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR?

FOR ALL OF US IN ARIZONA FOREVER, WE NEVER HAD ONE.

>> YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THE HISTORY IN THIS.

WE'VE HAD GOVERNORS WHO HAVE BEEN INDICTED AND REMOVED FROM OFFICE, GOVERNORS IMPEACHED AND REMOVED FROM OFFICE, AND GOVERNOR JANET NAPOLITANO SAID I'M TIRED OF THIS, I'M GOING TO WORK FOR OBAMA.

AND SOMETIMES WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CASE OF NAPOLITANO, THE PERSON WHO REPLACES THEM AND THE OLD LAW WAS SECRETARY OF STATE.

WHO IS ELECTED INDEPENDENTLY.

RICK: BY THE WAY, SHOULD POINT OUT ONCE UPON A TIME BRUCE BABBITT BECAME GOVERNOR AND HAD TO GO TO SECRETARY OF STATE AND HAD TO GO TO THE NEXT POSITION.

>> EXACTLY.

YOU GO TO THE NEXT PERSON YOU ELECTED A DEMOCRAT, ALAW NAPOLITANO, AND WHY DO WE HAVE A TICKET, THE SAME WAY THE PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT NEXT IN ORDER, TOOK A LONG TIME TO CONVINCE PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY SAID WE'RE GOING TO CREATE ANOTHER POSITION IN STATE GOVERNMENT?

WHY WOULD WE WANT TO DO THAT?

YOU HAVE TO ANNOUNCE RUNNING MATE AS THE GOVERNOR JUST DID AS ANDY BIGGS JUST DID AND SERVE AS HEAD OF SOME AGENCY BY THE GOVERNMENT TO BE TOMORROWED.

>> WHAT IS THE JOB OF LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR BESIDE BEING A PERSON STANDING BY IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENS TO THE REAL GOVERNOR.

>> UNDETERMINE.

WE NEVER DETERMINED IT ACCORDING TO HOWIE'S POINT.

RICK: ISN'T THERE A LAW, THAT OTHER THAN BEING THE NEXT BREATHING PERSON?

>> THEY CAN BE THE CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE GOVERNOR.

HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, THEY CAN BE THE HEAD OF ANOTHER STATE AGENCY OR BASICALLY ANYTHING THE GOVERNOR CAN APPOINT SOMEBODY TO, THEY CAN APPOINT THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR TO.

I THINK HOWIE'S POINT, NOT CREATING A WHOLLY NEW JOB IN STATE GOVERNMENT, THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WILL DO SOMETHING SOMEBODY IS ALREADY DOING BUT PROBABLY DEPENDS, I WOULD ASSUME THERE WERE CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN THE TOP OF THE TICKET, THE GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE AND THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ABOUT WHAT KINDS OF THINGS WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO IF WE WIN, AND IT PROBABLY DEPENDS WHICH ONE OF THEM WINS, IF SINE KERR WANTS TO DO ONE THING AND JOHN GILES WANTS TO DO SOMETHING ELSE.

RICK: THE GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR IS OF THE SAME PARTY AFFILIATION AS THE GOVERNOR.

WHAT SEEMED TO HAPPEN THIS WEEK, OUR GOVERNOR NAMED SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT OF THE SAME.

EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED.

WHO IT IS AND EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED.

>> THE JOB OF THE RUNNING MATE IS TO HELP THE TOP OF THE TICKET, THE GOVERNOR CANDIDATE GET ELECTED.

THAT'S WHAT KATIE HOBBS WAS LOOKING AT WHEN SHE PICKED JOHN GILES.

A LIFELONG REPUBLICAN WHO TURNED FURTHER AWAY FROM HIS PARTY IN THE TRUMP ERA, ENDORSED KAMALA HARRIS.

I THINK HE SPOKE AT THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION AND DECIDED A FEW MONTHS AGO THAT THE LIFE LONG REPUBLICAN MONIKER, HE WAS DONE WITH THAT.

HE SWITCHED TO INDEPENDENT.

IT WOULD BE TOUGH FOR DEMOCRATS TO SWALLOW KATIE HOBBS RUNNING WITH A REPUBLICAN RUNNING MATE.

INDEPENDENT RUNNING MATE NOT SO TOUGH TO STOMACH.

WHAT SHE'S HOPING IS JOHN GILES WILL APPEAL TO THE OTHER DISAFFECTED REPUBLICANS WHO CAN'T STOMACH TRUMP OR CENTER RIGHT INDEPENDENTS WHO DON'T LIKE THE MAGA MOVEMENT.

FOLKS WHO MIGHT STAY HOME AND NOT VOTE AT ALL, CAN APPEAL TO SOME OF THE FOLKS, BRING THEM INTO THE POLL, IT'S GOING TO BE A TIGHT RACE, AND FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, A GOOD PICK BECAUSE MUCH LIKE VICE PRESIDENT, THE EFFECT IS MARGINAL.

MOST OF THESE FOLKS ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A HUGE EFFECT.

SINE KERR -- RICK: EXPLAIN WHO SINE KERR IS, SHE'S KIND OF BEEN FORGOTTEN THIS PAST WEEK?

>> FORMER STATE SENATOR FROM THE WEST VALLEY.

PRETTY WELL RESPECTED.

ANDY BIGGS CHOSE HER I THINK LAST WEEK, ACCEPTABLE TO ALL FACTIONS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE A SINGLE VOTE IS SWAYED BY THIS.

RICK: YOU MEAN BY EITHER CHOICE?

>> BY SINE KERR.

HARD TO IMAGINE IF YOU ARE ON THE FENCE WHETHER TO VOTE AT ALL, MOST PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO KNOW THE NAMES OF THESE FOLKS.

JOHN GILES HAS A UNIQUE APPEAL THAT HOBBS IS HOPING TO BRING IN SOME VOTES AND POSSIBLY COULD.

RICK: ON A NATIONAL LEVEL PICKING A VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, I'M A NORTHEAST GUY, PICK SOMEBODY FROM TEXAS, FROM CALIFORNIA THAT CAN BRING THAT.

GILES IS FROM MESA, FROM THE EAST VALLEY.

CAN HE BRING THOSE VOTES WITH HIM?

>> HE'S, THAT PLUS MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST AND LATTER-DAY SAINTS AND THAT HELPS WITH CERTAIN CONSTITUENCIES, ALTHOUGH HARDER TO SAY WHETHER THAT BRINGS IN THE BLOC.

PART OF THE PROBLEM IS WE KNOW ABOUT SINE KERR.

SHE HAS A VOTING RECORD.

ANDY BIGGS HAS A VOTING RECORD.

THIS GOVERNOR HAS A VOTING RECORD AS A STATE SENATOR AND AS GOVERNOR IN TERMS OF WHAT SHE'S SIGNED AND VETOED.

THIS POINT, JOHN GILES IS A CIPHER AND WE'VE BEEN WAITING --.

RICK: HE WAS MAYOR OF MESA, NO MATTER WHAT THE STANCES THERE WERE.

>> LET'S GET THE STREETS PAID AND DO CIVIC THINGS.

WHAT DOES HE BELIEVE?

FOR EXAMPLE, HE SAID IN 2024, HE TOLD NPR I AM PRO-LIFE.

HE ALSO SAID MORE RECENTLY, I VOTED FOR PROP 39, THE CONSTITUTIONAL VOTE TO ABORTION.

WHICH IS IT?

IS HE THERE TO LOOK GOOD?

HE'S AN ATTORNEY, GOOD LOOKING, HE'S INDEPENDENT AND KATIE'S COUNTING ON THE FACT SHE'S GOING TO HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME GETTING RE-ELECTED AND MAYBE THIS IS A HAIL MARY FOR HER.

RICK: MARK, WE KNOW KATIE HOBBS, A WHILE BACK, SAID SHE WASN'T GOING TO BE DEBATING ANDY BIGGS, WHAT ABOUT JOHN GILES AND SINE KERR?

>> SAME THING.

HE WILL NOT BE DEBATING SINE KERR EITHER.

THE CAMPAIGN, THE GOVERNOR'S CAMPAIGN IS SAYING THAT WE THINK MEETING VOTERS FACE-TO-FACE IS MORE EFFECTIVE OPTION THAN DEBATES.

ONE COULD ARGUE YOU COULD DO BOTH, YOU COULD DEBATE AND THEN YOU COULD MEET WITH VOTERS FACE-TO-FACE, BUT NO, SHE'S NOT DOING THE GOVERNOR'S DEBATE, HE'S NOT DOING THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S DEBATE.

>> SHE'S ULTRACAREFUL, THIS IS A WOMAN WHO IN HER ANNOUNCEMENTS WENT TO THE MORNING NEWS CREWS ON TV STATIONS, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO COVER POLITICS TO INTRODUCE HIM.

THIS IS A WOMAN WHO ESSENTIALLY HAS TRIED TO AVOID ANYBODY WHO WILL ASK TOUGH QUESTIONS.

SHE'LL GO ON THE AFTERNOON KTAR SHOWS, SHE WILL NOT DO BROOM HEAD.

SHE'S NOT GOOD ON HER FEET.

NEVER HAS BEEN GOOD ON HER FEE.

SHE'S GOTTEN BETTER, BUT DOES NOT LIKE BEING CONFRONTED.

SHE THINKS IF I AVOID DEBATE, NOBODY IS GOING TO CONFRONT ME ON MY RECORD.

RICK: JEREMY, TALK ABOUT THE BIGGER QUESTION, HOW IS THIS BEING RECEIVED?

I HAVE A FEELING IF THIS HAPPENED ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, THERE WOULD BE PITCHFORKS AND HAY BALES ON FIRE.

HOW ARE THE DEMOCRATS TAKING THIS?

>> I'VE NOT HEARD COMPLAINTS AND I THINK THAT'S SURPRISING.

ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, KATIE HOBBS WOULD HEAR THE SCREAMING FROM OUTSIDE THIS BUILDING, PEOPLE WOULD BE INCREDIBLY ANGRY.

I'M SURE THERE ARE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE PRIVATELY NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE FACT THAT A REPUBLICAN-TURNED-INDEPENDENT IS A RUNNING MATE.

THIS IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO RAISE THE PROFILE OF YET ANOTHER DEMOCRAT.

HERE IN ARIZONA, AND THIS IS MAYBE CHANGING A LITTLE BIT, DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN GOOD AT FALLING INTO LINE BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN IN THE MINORITY FOR SO LONG.

THERE'S A SENTIMENT FOR DEMOCRATS, HEY, WE HAVE TO TAKE WHAT WE CAN GET, WE'RE LUCKY TO HAVE A GOVERNOR, SHE WON BY 17,000 VOTES FOUR YEARS AGO.

THAT VETO STAMP IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT, AND HOBBS STOPPED A LOT OF STUFF THE DEMOCRATS DON'T WANT TO SEE PASSED INTO LAW.

RICK: ALL CONCERNED ABOUT RE-ELECTION.

>> WHATEVER CONCERNS DEMOCRATS HAVE IS A SENSE OF, OKAY, DON'T ROCK THE BOTHS DON'T MAKE KATIE HOBBS LOOK BAD.

WE NEED TO GET HER ELECTED.

RICK: THERE'S NO FEAR BY THE DEMOCRATS THAT SUDDENLY JOHN GILES, WHEN KATIE'S TERM IS UP IN FOUR YEARS, ASSUMING SHE GETS RE-ELECTED, HE'S SUDDENLY GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR ON THAT.

HE'S SAFE PICK, ASSUMING SHE'S NOT CALLED AWAY TO WASHINGTON FOR SOMETHING, HE'S A SAFE PICK.

RICK: BECAUSE ELECTIONS ARE 12 MONTH A YEAR, EVERY SINGLE YEAR, YEAR AFTER YEAR TOPIC, WE HAVE THE PROPOSITIONS TO TALK ABOUT.

THIS IS A SEASON WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT THE PROPOSITION VERY MUCH, BUT WE HAVE SO MANY THAT END UP IN COURT.

WE HAVE TWO DEALING WITH EDUCATION?

>> I'M SO BAD WITH THE -- RICK: 212.

>> THAT IS THE PUBLIC TEACHERS MEASURE TRYING TO REIN IN ESAs A LITTLE BIT.

RICK: I DON'T WANT TO SAY THE WORD VOUCHER, THE SCHOOL EMPOWERMENT ACCOUNT.

>> WHAT'S IN A NAME, THE COURT TRIED TO FIGURE OUT WHICH SIGNATURES WERE VALID?

WHICH CIRCULATORS WERE ALLOWED?

THERE HASN'T BEEN A FINAL RULING ON.

THAT HOWIE HAS HIS NOTES OUT.

>> THERE'S TWO OTHER PIECES OF LITIGATION.

ONE TO YOUR POINT, THERE'S A LAWSUIT AGAINST ADRIAN FONTES BECAUSE HE USED THE WORD VOUCHER.

RICK: TWO SUITS ON BOTH SIDES OF 212.

>> HE SAID EMPOWERMENT SCHOLARSHIP ACCOUNT BUT ALSO RECOGNIZES SINCE WE'VE HAD THE ESA PROGRAM SINCE 2011, FOLKS REFERRED TO THEM AS VOUCHERS.

IS THERE A TECHNICAL DIFFERENCE HOW THE MONEY IS PROCESSED?

YES.

THAT IS AN ISSUE.

RICK: AND REAL BRIEFLY, BEFORE YOU GO ON, A JUDGE MADE A RULING ABOUT THAT THIS WEEK, CORRECT?

>> ON THE VOUCHER?

RICK: ON THE VOUCHER WORD.

>> ON THE VOUCHER WORD.

THAT'S NOT ONLY THE OTHER LAWSUIT ON HOW THIS IS DESCRIBED IN THE BALLOT BECAUSE THERE IS A LAWSUIT WHERE ADRIAN FONTES LOST, THE OTHER SIDE LOST, THE PUBLICITY PAMPHLET.

>> YOU'VE GOT TWO THINGS, THE SECRETARY OF STATE MAKES A TITLE FOR THE BALLOT THAT SAYS HERE'S THE YES AND NO, AND THAT'S WHERE ADRIAN DOES THAT AS SECRETARY OF STATE, AND SAID HE COULD USE THE WORD VOUCHER.

ANOTHER LAWSUIT THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, A BUNCH OF LAWMAKERS, HAPPENS TO BE CONTROLLED BY REPUBLICANS, CAME UP WITH A PUBLICITY PAMPHLET WHAT THEY SAID IT IS DOES, AND SAID IF YOU PASS THIS, THE PEOPLE PUSHING THE VOUCHERS CAN GO AFTER YOU PERSONALLY, AND WHAT THE COURT SAID IS NO, THAT ISN'T -- THE SUPREME COURT SAID JUST YESTERDAY, THEY SAID NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT IT SAYS AND SLAPPED DOWN THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

EVERYBODY'S ARGUMENT OVER EVERY TINY LITTLE BIT OF THIS.

RICK: AND KEEPING TRACK OF THIS IS A NIGHTMARE.

IF YOU'RE A VOTER, YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THESE POP OUT, HOW DO YOU KEEP TRACK OF ALL THIS?

>> FIRST YOU HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE WHAT MAKES IT TO THE BALLOT IN ADDITION TO THE SIGNATURES FOR THE PROTECT EDUCATION ACT, PROPOSITION 145, WHICH IS WHAT THE LEGISLATURE PASSED OSTENSIBLY TO PROTECT MILITARY FAMILIES TO STOP THE PROTECT EDUCATION ACT OR ANY LAW SWEEPING VOUCHER MONEY, YOU CAN BANK IT FOR FUTURE USE, EVEN COLLEGE TUITION.

RICK: BUT IT HAD TWO SIDES AND IN THE LEGISLATURE AT THE LAST-MINUTE.

>> AND ANY LAW THAT INCLUDES A SWEEP OF THE VOUCHER MONEY FOR MILITARY ACADEMY, THE ENTIRE LAW IS GONE, AND THEY TRIED TO DOWNPLAY THAT BUT A SNEAKY WAY TO GET FOR FOLKS TO VOTE FOR MILITARY FAMILIES AND VOTE TO COMPLETELY SCRAP THE PROTECT EDUCATION ACT.

IF BOTH PASSED, THE PROTECT EDUCATION ACT IS TOAST, AND THE COURTS HAVE THE SAID YOU CAN'T PUT THOSE TWO TOGETHER IN THE SAME BALLOT, OBVIOUSLY MEANT TO DECEIVE FOLKS, THAT'S TO APPEAL TO THE ARIZONA SUPREME COURT, WE'RE WAITING FOR THE FINAL WORD ON THAT.

RICK: MARK, WE'RE GETTING TO END OF THIS PROCESS.

>> ARE WE?

RICK: IN TERMS OF WHAT HAS TO BE IN PLACE FOR THE BALLOTS TO BE PUT TOGETHER FOR THE ELECTION.

THEY DON'T HAVE MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS TO KEEP BATTLING.

>> NO, THEY'RE CERTAINLY PRINTING DEADLINES THAT THE COUNTIES NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT AND TO THE POINT OF GOVERNOR HOBBS PICKING HER RUNNING MATE, WHO IS GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT?

WE SHOULD KNOW IN THE NEXT SEVERAL WEEKS WHAT ACTUALLY IS GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT.

A NUMBER OF THESE STILL HAVE TO -- THERE IS ACTIVE LITIGATION THAT HAS TO BE RESOLVED.

RICK: ACTUALLY, MARICOPA COUNTY TOLD THE SUPREME COURT NEXT THURSDAY IS WHEN WE NEED THIS DONE.

>> AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ISSUE OF PROP 212, AND WE'LL HAVE A JUDGE DECIDE TUESDAY, IF THERE ARE ENOUGH SIGNATURES, SOMEBODY IS GOING TO APPEAL THE SUPREME COURT.

SUPREME COURT WILL ISSUE A SUMMARY JUDGMENT AND SAY WE'LL EXPLAIN OUR LOGIC LATER.

THE SUPREME COURT IS WELL AWARE OF IT HITTING THE BALLOT.

IN TERMS OF KNOWING WHAT'S GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT, IF WE DON'T KNOW WHEN WE OR SOMEONE ELSE IS SITTING AROUND THIS TABLE A WEEK FROM NOW, WE'RE IN REAL TROUBLE.

RICK: ALL RIGHT, LET'S TALK ABOUT ANOTHER THING THAT HOPEFULLY WILL NOT END UP IN COURT, THAT'S THE FACT THAT THE SENATE PRESIDENT WARREN PETERSEN SAID HE AND HIS GROUP ARE NOT GOING TO SUE ABOUT REDISTRICTING IN ARIZONA.

BRIEFLY JEREMY, EXPLAIN WHY ARE THEY CONSIDERING IT AND WHY AREN'T THEY GOING TO DO IT?

>> THE SUPREME COURT ISSUED A RACIALLY GERRYMANDERING SITUATION THE MAJORITY BLACK DISTRICTS, MAJORITY LATINO DISTRICTS WHICH ARE GENERALLY DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS.

SUPREME COURT SAID YOU CAN'T BASE DISTRICTS ON RACE OR ETHNICITY, A LOT OF STATES STARTED CHANGING UP CONGRESSIONAL MAPS.

UP HERE WE HAVE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION AND SENATE PRESIDENT PETERSEN SAID LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET EXTRA REPUBLICAN SEATS OUT OF THAT.

THERE'S ONLY TWO MAJORITY LATINO DISTRICTS, BOTH REPRESENTED BY DEMOCRATS, PETERSEN CAME OUT AND SAID, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

THE COMMISSIONERS THINK THE MAPS END UP PRETTY MUCH THE SAME WHICH I THINK GETS TO THE PROBLEM THESE OTHER STATES ARE CONTROLLED BY THE LEGISLATURE, WHOEVER CONTROLS THE LEGISLATURE IS INTENTIONALLY WRINGING AS MANY SEATS OUT OF THE MAPS FOR THEIR OWN PARTY.

HERE IS NOT THE SAME.

INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION IS NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE PARTY AFFILIATION.

>> TWO REPUBLICANS, TWO DEMOCRATS AND WANT INS.

>> YOU HAVE THE TWO DEMOCRATIC LATINO DISTRICTS, ONE IN THE PHOENIX AREA, YASSAMIN ANSARI SEAT, COVERS THE PAC, AND I THINK THERE'S A PERIL HERE FOR THE REPUBLICANS IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE THE MAPS BECAUSE IF SOMEONE WANTED TO TRY AND GET MORE DEMOCRATIC ADVANTAGE THERE, YOU COULD LOOK AT THOSE TWO MAJORITY LATINO DISTRICTS AND SAY TAKE DEMOCRATS OUT OF THE DISTRICTS AND IT WILL BE REPRESENTED BY DEMOCRATS INSTEAD OF MOVING THEM INTO JUAN CISCOMANI'S DISTRICT OR DAVID SCHWEIKERT'S DISTRICT.

>> BE CARE OF.

>> THE LAST TIME THEY MOVED A LINE INTO A TRAILER PARK IN FLAGSTAFF, SO WENDY ROGERS COULD RUN IN THE DISTRICT SHE WANTED.

SO EVEN WITH THE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION AND NONPARTISAN NATURE, THOSE GAMES GET PLAYED NOW, AND IT'S A GAMBLE, IF YOU REOPEN IT, ASSUMING CAN YOU LEGALLY DO THAT BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS ALL VOTER PROTECTED.

IF YOU REOPEN IT, YOU ARE IN REAL TROUBLE BECAUSE YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT COMES OUT THE OTHER END.

>> THAT'S THE REAL ISSUE, THIS OBVIOUSLY HASN'T BEEN TESTED LEGALLY.

TO HOWIE'S POINT, KNOW WHOS IF A COURT WOULD SAY, SURE, YOU CAN FORCE THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION TO REDO THIS AND THEN YOU HAVE THE QUESTION WHAT WOULD THE NEW LINES LOOK LIKE?

THERE ARE A LOT OF VARIABLES.

RICK: CAN YOU SUE OVER EVERYTHING AND MAY OR MAY NOT GET A DECISION.

>> IT WOULD TAKE YEARS TO PLAY OUT.

WE'LL GET TO THE NEXT REDISTRICTING BEFORE THAT WRAPS UP.

RICK: RALPH HEAP RUNNING FOR CORPORATION COMMISSIONER AND EXPLAIN WHAT THE ISSUE HAS BEEN BECAUSE HE'S BEEN TIED UP FOR A WHILE, AND LOOKS LIKE NOW THE LOGJAM IS GOING TO ALLOW HIM TO MOVE FORWARD WITH GETTING MONEY FOR PUBLIC FUNDING FOR THE ELECTION.

>> IF THE COMMISSION RULED THE OTHER WAY TODAY, I THINK WE WOULD BE.

RICK: THE BACKGROUND, EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED.

>> RALPH HEAP WON THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR CORPORATION COMMISSION, CLEAN ELECTIONS CANDIDATE, YOU DON'T ACCEPT PRIVATE FUNDING AND $5 QUALIFYING CONTRIBUTIONS, A LUMP-SUM OF MONEY FOR THE PRIMARY, THEN THE GENERAL.

WE'RE IN THE GENERAL NOW, RALPH HEAP HASN'T GOTTEN MONEY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO SIGN AN AFFIDAVIT ATTESTING TO THE ACCURACY OF THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS.

THE REPORTS DIDN'T SAY WHO PAID FOR THEM.

SO COMMISSION SAID WE'RE NOT GIVING YOU YOUR MONEY UNTIL YOU SIGN THIS AFFIDAVIT.

HE SIGNED IT.

THE COMMISSION'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR TOM COLLINS SAID REPORTS ARE INACCURATE.

WE GAVE A TWO-MONTH CREDIT, THE COMMISSIONER SAID YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT AND SUPPOSED TO BE REPORTED ON CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS AND RECOMMENDED HE CONTINUE WITHHOLDING THE MONEY.

A LONG MEETING TODAY, PEOPLE SPEAKING FOR AND AGAINST HIM, WITHOUT THE TOM COLLINS RECOMMENDATION.

>> ACTUALLY HAVE TWO VOTES.

>> DESPITE THE RECOMMENDATION HEAP NOT GET HIS MONEY, THEY VOTED 3-1.

RICK: TALKING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, 350,000?

>> BETWEEN THE PRIMARY AND GENERAL, HE HASN'T GOTTEN THE PRIMARY YET EITHER WHICH WOULD HAVE PAID FOR THE SIGNS, IF HE HAD IT, AND YOU MENTIONED A SEPARATE VOTE TO FIND REASONABLE CAUSE HE VIOLATED CLEAN ELECTIONS AND THEY'RE GOING TO DO AN ELECTION.

RIGHT NOW THE BOTTOM LINE IS RALPH HEAP GETS HIS MONEY WHICH PROBABLY SAVES HIS CAMPAIGN.

WE'RE ONLY SEVEN WEEKS AWAY.

RICK: ON ONE HAND THEY SAID HE BROKE THE RULES AND THE OTHER HAND THEY'RE GOING TO INVESTIGATE.

>> CERTAIN CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS CAN RESULT IN YOU BEING REMOVED FROM OFFICE, AND SO THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT BECAUSE HE'S A REPUBLICAN, THIS IS A MODERATE REPUBLICAN STATE, LEAVING ASIDE THE INDEPENDENTS, HE COULD GET ELECTED TO THE COMMISSION, THEN THE OFFICE WOULD BE DECLARED VACANT IF HE'S CONVICTED, WHICH GIVES GOVERNOR KATIE HOBBS THE POWER TO NAME A REPLACEMENT.

RICK: UNLESS SHE'S NOT THERE AND THEN IT WOULD BE THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

>> OR MAYBE IT COULD BE GOVERNOR BIGGS, BUT THE QUESTION, IT HAS TO BE REPUBLICAN, IF IT'S KATIE, SHE'S NOT GOING TO NAME A STRONG REPUBLICAN, SHE'S GOING TO NAME A MODERATE REPUBLICAN.

THIS HAPPENED YEARS AGO WITH KRIS MAYES, SHE WAS A REPUBLICAN, APPOINTED BY JANET NAPOLITANO TO FILL A VACANCY BY A REPUBLICAN LAWMAKER, AND WE'VE SEEN HOW MS.

MAYES SAID, IT'S LIKE JOHN GILES, I'M NOT REALLY A REPUBLICAN ANYMORE.

RICK: MARK, IS THIS MASSIVE INSIDE BASEBALL?

IS THAT THE KIND OF THING PEOPLE -- I WENT TO MY FIRST TRIP TO BUC-EE'S LAST NIGHT, THINGS ARE CRANKING OUT THERE.

DO YOU THINK ANYBODY IN BUC-EE'S CARES ABOUT THIS AT ALL?

>> I WOULD BE PRETTY SURPRISED.

IT'S SUPER COMPLICATED.

JEREMY DID A VERY GOOD JOB EXPLAINING, IT IT'S REALLY A COMPLICATED FINANCIAL CLEAN ELECTIONS RULES, I'M NOT SURE THIS IS TOP OF MIND, CERTAINLY HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT IT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, SO YEAH, IT'S A DOWN BALLOT RACE, IT'S AN IMPORTANT GROUP BUT I FEEL EVERY TWO YEARS PEOPLE SAY IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT AGENCY HE'S NEVER HEARD OF, SO I SUSPECT THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE TOP OF MIND, UNLESS LIKE THERE'S SOME FINDING HE VIOLATED RULES AND MAYBE HE'S DISQUALIFIED FROM SERVING, THAT WOULD GET PEOPLE'S ATTENTION.

>> THIS WON'T MATTER TO MOST VOTERS, BUT WHAT WILL MATTER IS IF HE DOESN'T GET THE MONEY, HE DOESN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO REACH OUT TO THE VOTERS AND THE FOLKS CASTING BALLOTS DON'T KNOW WHO HE.

IS IT MATTERS TO VOTERS IN WAYS THEY DON'T REALIZE.

NOW HE HAS THE MONEY TO PUT UP FLYERS, SIGNS, AND DIGITAL THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> FIRST AND FOREMOST PAY OFF THE SIGN GUY.

RICK: WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE.

MARK, THANKS FOR BEING HERE, HOWIE, PLEASURE TO SEE YOUR BRIGHT AND SMILING FACE, AND JEREMY, A PLEASURE AS WELL.

THAT WILL DO IT FOR FRIDAY FOR "ARIZONA HORIZON."

TED SIMONS WILL BE BACK ON MONDAY.

I'M RICK DEBRUHL AND I HOPE